Utopia Talk / Politics / Gaza: sum hostis, hostem occidere volui

Rugian Member	Fri Oct 27 23:29:31 “I am an [Israeli] citizen,” he cried; “men call me Gaius Mucius. I am your enemy, and as an enemy I would have slain you; I can die as resolutely as I could kill: both to do and to endure valiantly is the [Israeli] way. Nor am I the only one to carry this resolution against you: behind me is a long line of men who are seeking the same honour. Gird yourself therefore, if you think it worth your while, for a struggle in which you must fight for your life from hour to hour with an armed foe always at your door. Such is the war we, the [Israeli] youths, declare on you." Link to previous: http://uto...hread=92276&time=1698441415039
obaminated Member	Sat Oct 28 02:21:31 I want to say I am glad we all waited and gave you time to make a new thread.
Paramount Member	Sat Oct 28 03:53:13 Since European countries has lost its spine, humanity must rely on Hezbollah to intervene to save the defenseless and starving children in Gaza that the jews are murdering. And when Israel nukes Iran, I hope that the entire region, Turkey, Syria, Jordan, Pakistan and Russia etc – the Axis of Resistance, will wipe the Axis of Evil – Israel and USA, off the face of the planet. Only the ashes must remain.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 28 04:17:44 Waaaa Jews!
Paramount Member	Sat Oct 28 04:42:54 Is that all?
Paramount Member	Sat Oct 28 04:43:04 The Biden forces has now started to arrest hundreds of jews in the US http://x.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1718057357412839454
Paramount Member	Sat Oct 28 04:52:20 Israel killed its own people http://the...led-burning-tanks-helicopters/
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 28 05:19:57 I can only do so much, with the material you give me.
jergul large member	Sat Oct 28 06:06:26 Ruggy You might know. Where does israel rank amongst the many, many people who have controlled the holy land (holy the to abrahamic faith)? Lets use Jerusalem as a placeholder. My. 56 years does not rank high in the holding Jerusalem competition. 3000-1500 BCE Caanites 1500-1274 BCE Egyptians 1274-1000 BCE Caanites 1000-925 BCE Judahans 925-905 BCE Egyptians 905-850 BCE Aram-Damaskus 850-597 BCE Judahans 597-330 BCE Babylon 330-140 BCE Greeks 140-37 BCE Hasmoneans 37 BCE-312 Romans 312-638 Sassanide or Byzants (it flip-flopped) 638-1099 Arab 1099-1187 Crusaders 1187-1516 Arabs (mostly) 1516-1917 Ottomans 1917-1947 British 1948-1967 Israelis/Jordans 1967-20?? (or maybe 2???) Israel
jergul large member	Sat Oct 28 06:08:52 Of course, conversely, the occupation of Palestine has not lasted long either compared to other occupation type control of the area.
murder Member	Sat Oct 28 08:10:20 "... hamas and hezbollah are ideologically aligned. It isn't a competition. The goal is to destroy Israel. Why is this difficult for you to understand?" No they are not. Literally the last thing Iran wants is to destroy Israel. Both rely at least partially for their survival on focusing the wrath of the Sunni/Arab world on the other. Israel & the US try to convince the Sunni/Arab world that the real enemy to focus on in Iran. Iran tries to convince the Sunni/Arab world that the real enemy to focus on is Israel. Think of the Sunni/Arabs as cats, and Israel is where Iran points their laser at. If Israel were defeated ... Iran would be screwed.
obaminated Member	Sat Oct 28 08:12:32 Who funds hamas and hezbollah?
murder Member	Sat Oct 28 08:14:41 Iran does. But that doesn't prove what you think it does. Iran uses the groups to keep the Sunni/Arabs focused on Israel's occupation of Palestine. Those aren't exactly armies of conquest.
murder Member	Sat Oct 28 08:22:45 Nimatzo already told you exactly why Iran had Hamas attack Israel. The Saudis, the US, and Israel, were working on a deal to normalize relations, and Iran needed to blow that up. And they did. Now Sunni/Arab rage is focused on Israel again. All the regional leaders know the game, but they play it anyway because the people on the street don't realize that they are being manipulated.
obaminated Member	Sat Oct 28 08:35:57 What is the goal of hamas and hezbollah?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 28 09:15:08 “If Israel were defeated ... Iran would be screwed.“ The Shia jihadis would move on to the Saudis next. It’s a globalist agenda. They will move on to the next target and the next…
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 28 09:17:47 It’s still arguable if the Saudi deal is blown up. Turki bin Faisal Al Saud, did a both sides type of speech not that long ago.
Paramount Member	Sat Oct 28 09:26:01 It is more simple than that. Hamas was invited to attack Israel by Netanyahu who opened the door, looked away, and let them in, and then even helped Hamas in its attack by shooting tank shells into Kibbutzes. Israel has never cared about having good relations with its neighbors. They don't need Iran to sabotage anything. They simply don’t give a shit about what the Saudis or anyone else for that matter says or think, regardless. What matters to the Jews is the land and that only Jews can live there. The Jews has been calling for the extermination of the Arabs for many years. Netanyahu gave himself the pretext to initiate the genocide now, and Netanyahu hasn’t looked this happy in years.
Paramount Member	Sat Oct 28 09:34:30 Israel should nuke London now http://x.com/skynews/status/1718236834646372449 and then Iran.
Paramount Member	Sat Oct 28 09:37:12 Damn… that’s a lot of Hamas terrorists in one place. http://x.com/sahouraxo/status/1718247290488361171 Didn’t know Hamas was this strong in the UK. Lol As I said, Israel must seize the opportunity and nuke London now.
Paramount Member	Sat Oct 28 09:49:47 Stay safe, Seb.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Oct 28 14:49:23 I'm sure israel has some sort of "final protocol" where if they are being overrun they launch on the 100 largest muslim population centers or something like that. They could be forgiven for adding london to that list.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Oct 28 14:59:50 An aircraft from our carrier is over gaza now. That would probably rile up lots of leftist/hamas types, but i doubt they can read a map.
murder Member	Sat Oct 28 16:53:31 We flew an aircraft into a war zone?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 28 17:15:48 They had an opinion poll on Islamic Republic TV where people could call in to answer by phone Will the Zionist regime be destroyed: 1. Yes 2. Absolutely I'm not making this up.
jergul large member	Sat Oct 28 18:14:36 Nimi Are you complaining about the Cpt. Obvious part of that poll? I just gave you the breakdown on rulers of Jerusalem. Nothing lasts forever. Particularly not in Jerusalem and its near environs. One of the problem with any uni-ethnic state is that it cannot endure unless in isolation. This is as true of Israel as it is of North Korea.
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jergul large member	Sat Oct 28 18:44:06 Well, how long do you think Israel will last? As long as the Caanite, or perhaps the Egyptians?
jergul large member	Sat Oct 28 18:47:24 You should actually be a fan of big picture view. Humans are what? 100k years old in their current genetic configuration? Dont sweat the small stuff like say the continual existence of this or political entity. Because if you do, you are bound to be disappointed over the long term.
jergul large member	Sat Oct 28 18:47:58 this or that*
jergul large member	Sat Oct 28 18:54:06 Let me rephrase that. Nimi, do you think the Zionist regime will be destroyed, or do you believe it the one constant in human existence that will exist until the heat death of the universe or beyond? Zionist regime is incidentally not a synonym with Israel-Al Qud. A 1 state solution would mean the end of a state based on uni-ethnic principles and would replace that with a more multi-ethnic basis. For example.
murder Member	Sat Oct 28 19:31:33 "............................." It's amazing how recognizable that is.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Oct 29 05:02:12 Jergul You need to smoke some weed.
Allahuakbar Member	Sun Oct 29 05:58:21 It's the new holocaust! http://www...y-gaza-%E2%80%93-so-it-awakens Hamas leader Isamil Haniyeh called in an October 26, 2023 address upon all the "free people of the world" to stop the bombing of Gaza, which he referred to as the "new holocaust." He said: "The blood of the women, children and elderly […] we are the ones who need this blood, so it awakens within us the revolutionary spirit, so it awakens with us resolve." He said that the demise of the Israeli occupation is "inevitable," and therefore, preparations must be made for the post-occupation phase. The address was aired on Mayadeen Network (Lebanon), and other TV networks. Ismail Haniyeh: "I call upon all the intellectuals and strategic experts to discuss the post-occupation phase, because its demise is inevitable. This occupier will not be able to recover, because of the strategic blow and resounding defeat that befell it. "I Call On All The Free People Of The World... To Exert All The Necessary Pressure... To Stop This War Against Our Children, Women, And Elderly, Our Mosques, Our Universities, And Our Homes; This New Holocaust Must Stop" "I call on everybody – all the free people of the world, all the friendly countries, all the brotherly [Arab] countries, and all the allies – to exert all the necessary pressure, in all directions and in all forums, in order to end the aggression against Gaza, to stop this war against our children, women, and elderly, our mosques, our universities, and our homes. This brutal aggression must stop. This new holocaust must stop. "The Blood Of The Women, Children, And Elderly... We Are The Ones Who Need This Blood, So It Awakens Within Us The Revolutionary Spirit" "I have said this before, and I say it time again: The blood of the women, children, and elderly… I am not saying that this blood is calling for your [help]. We are the ones who need this blood, so it awakens within us the revolutionary spirit, so it awakens within us resolve, so it awakens within us the spirit of challenge, and [pushes us] to move forward."
jergul large member	Sun Oct 29 06:11:39 Nimi You need to smoke way less weed.
Allahuakbar Member	Sun Oct 29 07:05:17 Erdogan! http://www...-turkeys-centenary-2023-10-28/ ISTANBUL, Oct 28 (Reuters) - President Tayyip Erdogan addressed hundreds of thousands of supporters at one of the largest pro-Palestinian rallies since the Israel-Hamas war began, courting his Islamist political base a day ahead of the centenary of Turkey's secular republic. "Israel has been openly committing war crimes for 22 days, but the Western leaders cannot even call on Israel for a ceasefire, let alone react to it," Erdogan told the crowd in Istanbul, who waved Palestinian flags. "We will tell the whole world that Israel is a war criminal. We are making preparations for this. We will declare Israel a war criminal," he said. In an hour-long speech, Erdogan also repeated his assertion that Hamas was not a terrorist organisation, describing Israel as an occupier. Turkey has condemned Israeli civilian deaths caused by Hamas's Oct. 7 rampage through southern Israel, which killed 1,400, but Erdogan this week called the militant group Palestinian "freedom fighters". He also criticised some Western nations' unconditional support for Israel, drawing sharp rebukes from Italy and Israel.
murder Member	Sun Oct 29 10:14:31 "Hamas leader Isamil Haniyeh called in an October 26, 2023 address upon all the "free people of the world" to stop the bombing of Gaza, which he referred to as the "new holocaust."" Massacre women, children, and the elderly, kidnap hundreds ... and then cry for someone to step in and save them. Hamas may be the biggest bunch of bitches the world has ever seen.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Oct 29 10:20:19 That is their entire strategic cycle, it’s everyone who fall for it, that are the bitches.
TheChildren Member	Sun Oct 29 10:54:13 breakin news, turk army "protection force" enter gaza http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR9cS46tI0w
jergul large member	Sun Oct 29 11:29:19 Murder and Nimi Russia did filtration in similar circumstances. Open corridors to behind the frontlines, check people moving through. POW fighters, intern dangerous civilians and let the rest go to government camps before moving onward. Hamas can hide behind civilians because Israel is not letting the civilians out.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Oct 29 12:12:51 They are hiding behind civilians, because dead civilians are an integral part of the strategy. Not going to work without them, Hamas is very clear about this.
Seb Member	Sun Oct 29 15:58:29 Nimatzo: Given the population density of Gaza in not sure how Hamas could do anything but be behind civilians in much the same way that - as Rugian pointed out - the air defences for the London Olympics were on top of civilian buildings. It's certainly part of their strategy though. Whichever way you look at it, thats all the more reason for Israel to facilitate defusing this aspect with effective corridors, humanitarian camps for IDPs and guarantees of return.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Oct 29 16:18:56 The framing is completely wrong. They need martyrs. They need the blood of dead babies. That is why Hamas blocks the roads and tells people to stay in their homes. That is why their leaders litterally say they need civilians martyrs and the blood of children and women to fuel a fire in the rest of the region.
OsamaIsDaWorstPresid Member	Sun Oct 29 16:20:06 haz numso finaly turned ageinst iran and hiz ragi heritage
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Oct 29 16:21:22 You have be to be Jihadi, to wage an armed conflict you can’t win, against an enemy you can’t defeat in a densely populated urban area, guaranteeing the death of thousands of innocent people. Civilized people would have sought another path. Alas Hamas are Jihadis.
Seb Member	Sun Oct 29 17:25:05 Nim: Yes, Hamas's brutal terrorism cannot be tolerated and they must be removed from the equation to make any progress towards peace. But removing them (or degrading them) isn't a solution, only one necessary step - and it needs to be done in a way that doesn't make peace less possible in future. In the broader picture, non-military methods have not worked out well for Fatah in the West Bank at all - Israel has gone ahead with dismantling more and more Palestinian settlements, restricting movement between territories etc. etc. Ultimately Israel needs to create a path to a two state solution. Or a one state one with Palestinians having full civil rights and equal access to resources like land, water etc. The latter clearly runs contrary to the underlying logic of a necessity for a homeland for the Jews which only means a two state solution must be the long term goal. For all the rhetoric that the Israelis "don't have a partner for peace", the Palestinians can say exactly the same.
jergul large member	Sun Oct 29 17:28:33 Nimi Israel is not an act of God. Let it set up humanitarian corridors to allow Gazans to excape before we talk about Hamas blocking evacuations. Right now, Israel is blocking evacuations through the numerous check points under its control. Russia did it and Russia is a pretty low bar to pass. Ghetto liquidation is a lower bar true, but does Israel really want to be compared to other regimes that liquidated Ghettos?
Sam Adams Member	Sun Oct 29 17:29:56 "and it needs to be done in a way that doesn't make peace less possible in future. " You mean like how the firebombing of dresden and the nuking of H+N lead to peace being impossible with japan and germany eh?
Seb Member	Sun Oct 29 17:59:21 Sam: A few weeks ago, there was a cottage industry of numerically scaling 1400 dead Israelis by their population to show just how many 9/11 equivalents it was. If you do the same with Palestinians I suspect we are passed Dresden or Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But what made peace possible with Japan and Germany was - after the end of hostilities - a long period of occupation, but an occupation where the rights of civilian Germans and Japanese were respected, as was the territorial integrity of their countries was guaranteed (by the West anyway, not where Russia was involved), and huge flows of inbound aid to reconstruct the country from the occupying powers. This largely helped contextualise the brutality of war as a necessary step towards peace. Part of the problem with the Arab Israeli conflict is immediately after 1967, the Israelis decided not to undertake the kind of policies the west did towards defeated Axis powers but instead started annexing their lands and resources. I rather suspect if the US, UK and France had announced a policy to colonise Germany with American settlements, displacing the Germany people etc. on the same proportional scale that Israel did, and pursued it to the extent that Israel has done over the same kind of time scales, we would have faced plenty of resistance and terrorism. Given that Israel does not intend to do what the western allies did after WWII in Gaza, but rather intends to simply kill as many terrorists, disperse as many people out of the strip as possible, and then leave - perhaps barring 20% of the land for use - it would probably be a good idea to make big efforts to avoid mass killings of civilians as possible. Generally, without that kind of counterfactual of the occupying power bending over backwards to be scrupulously just and clearly trying to help better the situation of the occupied, people who have seen their innocent family members killed have a hard time accepting them as necessary or unintentional and want to retaliate in kind. If the genius plan is to leave them to their own devices in an economically blockaded refugee camp - again with no obvious way to better their lives - we are going to see the same pattern that led us from the 2nd Infantada to where we are now. The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
Allahuakbar Member	Sun Oct 29 23:52:33 Today in Dagestan, tomorrow in the whole world! http://www...y-russian-aviation-2023-10-29/ Oct 30 (Reuters) - Hundreds of anti-Israel protesters stormed an airport in Russia's predominantly Muslim Dagestan region on Sunday, where a plane from Israel had just arrived, forcing security forces to close the airport and remove the demonstrators. Twenty people were injured before forces contained the protest at Makhachkala airport, local authorities said. The passengers on the plane were safe, security forces told Reuters. The unrest followed several other anti-Israel incidents in North Caucasus sparked by Israel's war against Hamas militants in Gaza. The Dagestani government said early on Monday that it was strengthening security measures across the republic, which is home to about 3 million people. The unrest in the region, where Russian security forces once fought an Islamist insurgency, could pose another challenge for Russian President Vladimir Putin, who is waging a war in Ukraine and who has faced an attempted mutiny this year. Videos from Makhachkala airport obtained by Reuters showed the protesters, mostly young men, waving Palestinian flags, breaking down glass doors and running through the airport shouting "Allahu Akbar" or "God is Greatest". Another group were seen trying to topple over a patrol truck. The Russian Aviation Authority closed the airport until it completes security checks. There were no immediate reports of arrests, but Russia's federal investigations agency ordered a criminal probe into the incident. Sergei Melikov, the head of Dagestan, said the incident was a gross violation of the law, even as Dagestanis "empathize with the suffering of victims of the actions of unrighteous people and politicians, and pray for peace in Palestine". "There is no courage in waiting as a mob for unarmed people who have not done anything forbidden," Melikov said on the Telegram messaging app. Regional leaders in two other areas of the northern Caucasus called for calm. A similar appeal was issued by Dagestan's chief Muslim cleric, or mufti. Israel urged Russian authorities to protect Israelis and Jews in their jurisdictions following the recent spate of violence against Israeli and Jewish targets. In the past few days, a Jewish centre under construction in Nalchik, the capital of the nearby Russian republic of Kabardino-Balkaria, was set on fire, emergency officials said. There were also reports on social media of small anti-Israeli gatherings over the weekend in Dagestan and across the North Caucasus in Russia's south. Reuters could not independently verify those reports. Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskiy blamed the events on Russia's "widespread culture of hatred toward other nations, which is propagated by state television, pundits, and authorities". There was no immediate comment from the Kremlin. Russia has tried to maintain contact with all sides in the Israel-Hamas conflict, but has angered Israeli authorities by inviting a Hamas delegation to Moscow. Israel's foreign ministry summoned the Russian ambassador on Sunday.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Oct 30 00:02:26 "it would probably be a good idea to make big efforts to avoid mass killings of civilians as possible." Or kill so many it leaves such a deep wound that they are not willing to fight again.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Oct 30 00:05:28 "The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." Indeed. We arent going to see israel blast gaza a bit for a month and then go back to what has been. Something different will be used.
Allahuakbar Member	Mon Oct 30 00:09:01 <3 Dagestan http://twitter.com/search?q=dagestan&src=typed_query&f=media
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 30 02:01:59 Seb “Ultimately Israel needs to create a path to a two state solution.“ And this is where the reasoning breaks down and where historical realities are not internalized or understood. A *two* state solution requires two sides who engage in dialogue in good faith. Repeatedly the arabs have chosen the Sword, repeatedly. There is simply zero appreciation here for what an impossible adversary the Israelis have been confronted with or all the manners they have tried to resolve it. An adversary whose entire identity is anchored in a military disaster that needs to be rectified, a refugee victimhood status; the only one in the world that is legally inherited. Jergul And then what? Are you and your wife going to house them at your farmstead? The arab countries want nothing to do with them (Egypt also doesn’t let them leave) and Israel has no obligation to take in a couple if million people who have, for generations, the moment they set foot in schools been taugh to hate and de-humanize Jews. Courtesy of UNRWA, funded with our tax money. You just conveniently forget why Israel walled these people in to begin with. Great suggestions guys, but not really.
murder Member	Mon Oct 30 03:04:40 Who were those peaceful muslims in Dagestan looking for? Were there Israeli soldiers on that plane?
Seb Member	Mon Oct 30 03:42:09 Sam: "Or kill so many it leaves such a deep wound that they are not willing to fight again." Has that ever worked? Nim: "A *two* state solution requires two sides who engage in dialogue in good faith." When has Israel's primary policy towards the West Bank and Gaza not been to secure control of people's movements, land rights and natural resources? Even the best deal offered under the Oslo process still essentially gave Israel control of the west banks water, access to the outside world, freedom of movement internally. The annexation of land creates the casus belli for future conflict (see,France and Germany across the 19th and 20th century). Arguing that this is unprecedented just shows a complete ignorance of history. Israel cannot claim that the Arabs are the blocker to peace when as a state they have never since 1967 accepted that Palestinians should have anything amounting to a free state independent of Israel. You also gloss over the times that Israel has been the affair aggressor (e.g. when they connived Suez crisis).
Seb Member	Mon Oct 30 03:43:00 "Israel has no obligation to take in a couple if million people" Israel already has them.
jergul large member	Mon Oct 30 07:31:46 There seems to be some confusion on that point. Israel is an occupying power that has now tasked itself with exterminating a terrorist group on territory Israel occupies, but is currently a nogo zone. Israel has huge obligations and tremendous responsibilities for the Gazan civilians under occupation and who are the primary victims of the terrorist organization. Israel can be blamed for allowing Hamas to establish itself so strongly in the first place. Though politically inconvenient domestically, we are long past to point where Israel should have regained physical control and began providing security and opportunity for the people under occupation.
murder Member	Mon Oct 30 07:59:41 The Gazans voted that terrorist organization into power.
obaminated Member	Mon Oct 30 09:03:54 That woman who was raped and murdered by hamas and we knew was dead was confirmed to be murdered and raped by hamas. http://www...va-festival-paraded-truck.html But hamas didn't do that or brag about it. They only had her naked body on the back of a truck because the jew did it Fuck you seb and jergul.
Paramount Member	Mon Oct 30 09:18:01 DailyMail UK lol She wasn’t raped. But if she was, which I doubt, the she wanted it. She voted for the fascist genocidal regime in Israel and then she went half naked into occupied territory to Hamas. She wanted Hamas penis, because it is ”forbidden” and it excited her. She was likely killed and raped by jewish fascists when they found out.
Daemon Member	Mon Oct 30 10:27:24 Paramount only trolls himself.
jergul large member	Mon Oct 30 10:30:28 Obam Tsk, tsk. When have I said anything in support of Hamas? My bias is slightly pro-Israel. I simply want that country to honour its obligations to civilians and restore order and security in Gaza. Murder Hamas got 44% of the vote. Here is what Palestinians thought in 2006. An exit poll conducted by Near East Consulting on 15 February 2006 on voters participating in the 2006 PA elections revealed the following responses to major concerns: Support for a Peace Agreement with Israel: 79.5% in support; 15.5% in opposition Should Hamas change its policies regarding Israel: Yes – 75.2%; No – 24.8% Under Hamas corruption will decrease: Yes – 78.1%; No – 21.9% Under Hamas internal security will improve: Yes – 67.8%; No – 32.2% Hamas government priorities: 1) Combatting corruption; 2) Ending security chaos; 3) Solving poverty/unemployment Support for Hamas' impact on the national interest: Positive – 66.7&; Negative - 28.5% Support for a national unity government?: Yes – 81.4%; no – 18.6% Rejection of Fatah's decision not to join a national unity government: Yes – 72.5%; No – 27.5% Satisfaction with election results: 64.2% satisfied; 35.8% dissatisfied[36] Wiki.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Oct 30 10:45:18 "Has that ever worked?" Ya. All the time.
Seb Member	Mon Oct 30 11:35:37 Murder: "The Gazans voted that terrorist organization into power." You know, even that isn't true. Hamas stood and won a majority of the legislative seats from Gaza to the Palestinian Legislative Committee. Sam: You spent a decade bombing the shit out of the Taliban - who runs Afghanistan now? Executive power rests with the PA. Hamas then staged a coup against the PA in Gaza, which faced resistance but which Hamas won by force of arms, on account of having a supply of guns, but the PA not being able to supply their forces without breaking the Israeli blockade. Since then Hamas has brutally killed anyone that dissents. There was a while back some trade union strikes by doctors: Hamas had the leaders executed and their bodies dragged through the streets on the back of motorcycles. That is how they acquired and maintain power: by a military coup, not by being voted in. Repeatedly saying that the Gazan's voted in Hamas is like saying the citizens of the republic of Ireland support IRA bombings because they voted for Sinn Fein. It's fundamentally dishonest and really just designed to justify collective punishment - the same logic Hamas uses to execute children.
Seb Member	Mon Oct 30 11:36:10 Urgh! Murder: "The Gazans voted that terrorist organization into power." You know, even that isn't true. Hamas stood and won a majority of the legislative seats from Gaza to the Palestinian Legislative Committee. Executive power rests with the PA. Hamas then staged a coup against the PA in Gaza, which faced resistance but which Hamas won by force of arms, on account of having a supply of guns, but the PA not being able to supply their forces without breaking the Israeli blockade. Since then Hamas has brutally killed anyone that dissents. There was a while back some trade union strikes by doctors: Hamas had the leaders executed and their bodies dragged through the streets on the back of motorcycles. That is how they acquired and maintain power: by a military coup, not by being voted in. Repeatedly saying that the Gazan's voted in Hamas is like saying the citizens of the republic of Ireland support IRA bombings because they voted for Sinn Fein. It's fundamentally dishonest and really just designed to justify collective punishment - the same logic Hamas uses to execute children. Sam: You spent a decade bombing the shit out of the Taliban - who runs Afghanistan now?
murder Member	Mon Oct 30 12:23:01 "You spent a decade bombing the shit out of the Taliban - who runs Afghanistan now?" We didn't bomb the shit out of anything. I guarantee we put up more buildings than we leveled. I guarantee we repaired more infrastructure than we wrecked. Hamas just killed more people in 1 day than we killed in 6 months in Afghanistan. We literally took the explosives out of Hellfire missiles and replaced them with blades. And we're still shrinking munitions to make sure we don't actually hurt anyone. I don't know how you can even say that with a straight face ... assuming you're maintaining a straight face.
murder Member	Mon Oct 30 12:25:00 "Since then Hamas has brutally killed anyone that dissents. There was a while back some trade union strikes by doctors: Hamas had the leaders executed and their bodies dragged through the streets on the back of motorcycles." Then I guess they will welcome the Israelis as liberators and snitch out Hamas every chance they get.
murder Member	Mon Oct 30 12:25:44 "Repeatedly saying that the Gazan's voted in Hamas is like saying the citizens of the republic of Ireland support IRA bombings because they voted for Sinn Fein." They did.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Oct 30 15:34:23 "You spent a decade bombing the shit out of the Taliban - who runs Afghanistan now?" We bombed them much less than what israel is doing to gaza.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Oct 31 08:19:29 "of course Israel has the right to defend itself, and then it should commit suicide" -Sebgul
jergul large member	Tue Oct 31 08:33:35 Then Israel should take its obligations seriously and firmly provide security to the people in all areas it controls until such a time when a political settlement is possible and security responsibilities can be transferred to others in areas no longer controlled by Israel. Fixed that for you nimi.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Oct 31 08:59:24 I used fewer words to say what you mean. Didn't require fixing, but thank you for the effort.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Oct 31 09:09:18 There is a cost to starting and losing wars. Occupation, annexation, loss of control. At which point you can fuck around more to find out where this will lead. The Arabs chose to blow up civilians establishment, homes and busses. Generation after generation, not a single peaceful Palestinian leader rose in their ranks. No Ghandi or Mandela, just increasingly more violent ideologies. They have forfeited their right to their own country. This is obvious when you look at the values and goals of Israel vs Muslims and Palestinians. What the world and the region needs, isn't another Muslim-Arab country, too many of those as it is, we are trying to get rid of a few, not add more.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Oct 31 09:28:27 Yemen launched a ballistic missile at israeli population center. Hezbollah continues to fire atgms at israeli tanks. Other iranian militia groups continue to fire at US bases. Iran needs to get it.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Oct 31 09:41:30 Sebs london police were filmed tearing down photos of kidnapped israelis.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Oct 31 09:47:28 "Israeli Jewish ppl in the UK are under layers of threat. They tell me they’re not speaking Hebrew in public. Not attending life events. Making their lives smaller. Antisemitism has exploded and Israelis and Jews disappear. Yet mobs roam the streets freely. It’s chilling." -british jew Amazing
Rugian Member	Tue Oct 31 11:00:54 ^ fucking disgusting And yeah, the Houthis are now claiming that they've launched missiles at southern Israel. Saudi Arabia should level Sana'a in response.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Oct 31 11:19:14 About 2 hours ago, Israel airstrikes hit a major hamas underground weapons depot. It was hidden under a residential neighborhood in gaza and an entire block of medium-rise apartment buildings is now a crater. The israeli bombs landed, a fire smouldered for a munute or so, and then the entire neighborhood blew up. Lmao. Dumb palestinians. Note israel has been warning people to leave that area for 3 weeks now. The tards of the world will blame israel still.
Paramount Member	Tue Oct 31 11:28:48 The Palestinians and the UNSC has told Israel to leave for many years. That you blame the Palestinian freedom fighters when some skanky illegal occupiers died makes you the largest tard of all.
Seb Member	Tue Oct 31 11:32:08 Murder: Is it your contention that if you hadn't put up the infrastructure and built houses that the Taliban would not now be running the country? The US dropped 85,000 bombs (this does not include NATO forces but lets assume that was minimal) on Afghanistan over the entire of enduring freedom. About 1 for every 500 people. At what point do you think you would have succeeded? "Then I guess they will welcome the Israelis as liberators and snitch out Hamas every chance they get." Israel has a documented (by them!) policy of shooting the limbs off children that throw rocks in the direction of its forces even if they land 50 meters short. I really don't think they will be welcoming the Israelis as liberators. Especially if they are in the business of blowing up their homes. Nim: "I want to deport my kids to Iran" - Nim "They have forfeited their right to their own country." That isn't a thing.
Seb Member	Tue Oct 31 11:34:05 Sam: "Sebs london police were filmed tearing down photos of kidnapped israelis." Yes, they put them up on someone's private property marked "no fliers".
Seb Member	Tue Oct 31 11:37:00 A shop front I understand. And the shop keeper was sufficiently intimidated by the pro-Israeli protestors that he felt he had to call the police to ask them to remove them.
Allahuakbar Member	Tue Oct 31 11:37:10 Look at these tunnels, Isreel will lose the war! http://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1719307233014485239 As Israel begins targeting Gaza Terror Tunnel Network, Hamas Terror groups gives access to Russia Today journalist to visit the Tunnel Network. This is the RT on ground report from underneath Gaza. This is the Gaza Metro.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Oct 31 11:57:26 "Israel has a documented (by them!) policy of shooting the limbs off children that throw rocks in the direction of its forces even if they land 50 meters short. " Lol. Dont throw rocks at soldiers duh. I also would shoot someone that tried to injure/kill me. Except i would be even less nice/more practical and aim for the chest, like you are supposed to. So basically, yet again, you are proving that israel is being even nicer than normal.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Oct 31 12:04:04 Israel suffered 2 kia in the ground invasion. RIP :(
Allahuakbar Member	Tue Oct 31 12:04:48 Do you remember her?^^ http://www...58830dc9df876451bc234073532d60 A young Palestinian woman who rose to fame after slapping an Israeli soldier in the face when she was a teenager has posted a graphic and disturbing message about the Israel-Hamas conflict. In 2017, a video of Ahed Tamimi, then 16, lashing out the soldier went viral, sparking a renewed focus on the plight of those in Palestine, particularly children. Ms Tamimi was arrested and charged with four offences, eventually sentenced to eight months in an Israeli prison. She became the face of the Palestinian resistance as a result. She rose to international prominence, making frequent media appearances and authoring a book. Some commentators compared her to Pakistani activist Malala Yousafzai. Earlier today, Ms Tamimi took to her Instagram account to share a graphic message via her Stories to Israelis in the wake of the current conflict gripping Gaza. “Our message to the settler flocks,” a translation reads. “We are waiting for you in all the cities of the West Bank, from Hebron to Jenin. We will slaughter you and we will say [that] what Hitler did was a joke. “We will drink your blood and eat your skulls. Come forward. We are waiting for you.” The remarks have sparked condemnation on social media. Ms Tahimi’s Instagram account appears to have been suspended.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Oct 31 12:09:08 Seb Cope harder.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Oct 31 13:07:24 lol Here is a Hamas leader, using sebgul logic to expliam why Hamas has managed to build so many tunnels and yet not aingle shelter. It is the responsibility of the UN to take care of the people of Gaza, according to the Geneve convention it is Israels responsibility. http://x.c...?s=46&t=CYhWz3k7xEhK_08avnT4-w And this is how the sebguls became the useful idiots of Islamist. You want to be live and let live, but the sebguls are gonna come and shit in the water and then cite international shitting right. Oh you didn’t know? According to the Geneva convention I can shit here and you have to pick it up.
murder Member	Tue Oct 31 13:08:15 "Is it your contention that if you hadn't put up the infrastructure and built houses that the Taliban would not now be running the country?" It is my contention that we were doing anything but wrecking things and killing people. "The US dropped 85,000 bombs (this does not include NATO forces but lets assume that was minimal) on Afghanistan over the entire of enduring freedom." The US dropped less than 50 bombs per day ... or less than the loadout of a single B-1B bomber ... in a nation the size of Texas. "At what point do you think you would have succeeded?" When you kill all the enemy.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Oct 31 13:16:54 This idea that a conflict is over when you have killed a certain amount of people, because now you’re even AKA “muh proportionality”, is the emblematic of a grotesque corrupted morality or the complete lack of morality. Death to sebgul.
Rugian Member	Tue Oct 31 13:21:44 “The tunnels are to protect Hamas fighters only. Its the responsibility of the UN to build shelters for the civilians ” But but but I thought the Gazans elected Hamas to provide good and corruption-free government?
obaminated Member	Tue Oct 31 13:39:27 "Southern command units, this is the commander. We are striking against Hamas and the terrorist organizations in the Gaza strip. Our only goal ـــ victory No matter how long and no matter how hard the fighting will be, there is no other outcome than victory We will fight with profession and strength, based on the principles of the Israeli defense forces that we were instilled in us and in their forefront ـــ Dedication to mission, and pursuit of victory. We will fight in alleys, we will fight in tunnels, we will fight wherever necessary. We will eliminate the abominable enemy before whom we stand. My brothers in arms; the residents of Be'eri, Sderot, Nir Oz, Kfar Aza, and the west Negev communities, and alongside them all the people of Israel, are watching us now. Like me, they trust you and believe in you. You are the generation of victory. This is the commander, move to achieve your missions, strike the enemy. Over and out." Get some.
Rugian Member	Tue Oct 31 14:28:34 ^ damn son Makes me even more furious to know that the US pressured Israel to turn the internet back on. The things that could have been accomplished in the fog of war...
Sam Adams Member	Tue Oct 31 17:25:31 Pretty big battles in northern gaza. Shits getting lit up.
obaminated Member	Tue Oct 31 18:25:36 So looks like northern gaza is gonna be completely bulldozed. Makes sense. Also it'll cause the Palestinians to be somewhat relocated to a place where Israel can manage them better. So. Relocation is likely happening.
Rugian Member	Tue Oct 31 18:39:01 "So looks like northern gaza is gonna be completely bulldozed." Yes...yes...YES
Allahuakbar Member	Wed Nov 01 09:18:01 This will become world war 3 and after it the Caliphate will dominate the world! Watch the video and see how the Houthi launch missiles and drones against Isreel: http://new...-and-drones-at-israel-12997972 Israel-Hamas war: Iran-backed Houthis 'launch ballistic missiles and drones' at Israel Houthi military spokesperson Brigadier Yahya Saree, claimed to have fired ballistic missiles and drones at Israel, saying it was the third such operation and that they plan to carry out more strikes "until the Israeli aggression stops." Wednesday 1 November 2023 13:08, UK
Seb Member	Wed Nov 01 09:23:16 Nim: RE the video, here again we have Arab news readers working on Arab news stations giving hostile views in Arabic to Arab viewers that are clearly not favourable to Hamas, and Hamas lying about their position. Tell me again how this shows universal support in the Arab and Muslim world for Hamas? I literally pointed this out to you earlier.
Seb Member	Wed Nov 01 09:24:05 And somehow you take this as proof that anything less than hatred for the Arab world is support for Islamism.
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