Utopia Talk - Politics - 100s England was structurally racist

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Utopia Talk / Politics / 100s England was structurally racist

Rugian
Member Sat Nov 25 07:35:56
"Black women of African descent were more likely to die of the medieval plague in London, academics at the Museum of London have found.

The study is the first archaeological exploration of race, gender and social standing influencing a person's risk of death, during what was known as the Great Pestilence or Great Mortality.

The research is based on 145 individuals from three cemeteries.

The report said: "There is a significantly higher proportion of people of estimated African affiliation in the plague burials compared to the nonplague burials (18.4% vs. 8.3%).

"For the female-only sample, individuals of estimated African population affinity have a significantly higher estimated hazard of dying of plague compared to those with estimated white European affinity. There are no significant associations for any of the other comparisons."

The likelihood of dying from the Great Pestilence was highest amongst those who already faced significant hardship, including exposure to famines that hit England during this time.

The research concluded that higher death rates amongst people of colour and those of black African descent was a result of the "devastating effects" of "premodern structural racism" in the medieval world.""

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-67472933

Rugian
Member Sat Nov 25 07:36:44
13 years of "Conservative" governance and the leftwing BBC is still receiving taxpayer money.

Sad.

Rugian
Member Sat Nov 25 07:37:39
Also thread title should read 1300s.

murder
Member Sat Nov 25 12:58:22

Probably related to cultural differences in handling the dead.

Seb
Member Sat Nov 25 14:02:25
But... But... But... Rugian, you told me there were no blacks in Britain in the middle ages! And if there were there were so freakishly rare how did you find a sample enough in 145 bodies!

Seb
Member Sat Nov 25 15:03:05
On a serious note, I wonder how accurate the ability to identify African heritage from bones are and if it is calibrated well for that period: i.e. different sizes and densities may reflect environmental conditions that vary over time.

It surprises me that you can draw any kind of conclusion at all from 145 bodies - and even in London the idea that you might have, say 73 women and you have more than one or two with African heritage seems odd in itself.

Seb
Member Sat Nov 25 15:06:20
Rugian:

Rate payers money, not taxpayer money. Big difference.

Murder:

Unlikely, the plague dead were largely buried in pits unless you had wealth and status, and the 1300's was during the feudal period.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha Sun Nov 26 07:03:55
"The report also acknowledges the sample size is small and that it has been careful to avoid what it termed as "the incorrect and harmful implication that there is a biological basis of race and we actively oppose the incorrect inference that there is something inherent to people assigned to a certain racial category that makes them more vulnerable to disease"."

Even as they point to the weakness in their study, they manage to get almost everything wrong. There is a biological basis for "race" (in this specific case individuals of African vs European lineages), and different lineages have inherent differences (genetic) in vulnerability to disease!

Nimatzo
iChihuaha Sun Nov 26 07:15:46
There is a straight forward explanation (if the data is valid) that explains why people with darker skin would be a risk group for infectious disease, living in Europe. Vitamin D deficiency. In this climate they are *inherently* more at risk of vitamin D deficiency, which lead to all kind of bad outcomes, among them negative effects on the immune system.

The alternative cost of this woke racism is that black people literally will die of things that can be remedied fairly easily, because nobody is looking for *real* explanation, it's all racism AKA "god did it".

murder
Member Sun Nov 26 11:29:50

"Unlikely, the plague dead were largely buried in pits unless you had wealth and status, and the 1300's was during the feudal period."

I don't have any knowledge of Africans in England in 1300s. I brought up the handling of the dead because even today there are issues with the spread of infectious diseases such as Ebola ... and women would be the ones tasked with cleaning the bodies and such.

Seb
Member Sun Nov 26 12:44:15
Murder:

Oh, misunderstood what you were getting at!

show deleted posts

Rugian Member	Sat Nov 25 07:35:56 "Black women of African descent were more likely to die of the medieval plague in London, academics at the Museum of London have found. The study is the first archaeological exploration of race, gender and social standing influencing a person's risk of death, during what was known as the Great Pestilence or Great Mortality. The research is based on 145 individuals from three cemeteries. The report said: "There is a significantly higher proportion of people of estimated African affiliation in the plague burials compared to the nonplague burials (18.4% vs. 8.3%). "For the female-only sample, individuals of estimated African population affinity have a significantly higher estimated hazard of dying of plague compared to those with estimated white European affinity. There are no significant associations for any of the other comparisons." The likelihood of dying from the Great Pestilence was highest amongst those who already faced significant hardship, including exposure to famines that hit England during this time. The research concluded that higher death rates amongst people of colour and those of black African descent was a result of the "devastating effects" of "premodern structural racism" in the medieval world."" http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-67472933
Rugian Member	Sat Nov 25 07:36:44 13 years of "Conservative" governance and the leftwing BBC is still receiving taxpayer money. Sad.
Rugian Member	Sat Nov 25 07:37:39 Also thread title should read 1300s.
murder Member	Sat Nov 25 12:58:22 Probably related to cultural differences in handling the dead.
Seb Member	Sat Nov 25 14:02:25 But... But... But... Rugian, you told me there were no blacks in Britain in the middle ages! And if there were there were so freakishly rare how did you find a sample enough in 145 bodies!
Seb Member	Sat Nov 25 15:03:05 On a serious note, I wonder how accurate the ability to identify African heritage from bones are and if it is calibrated well for that period: i.e. different sizes and densities may reflect environmental conditions that vary over time. It surprises me that you can draw any kind of conclusion at all from 145 bodies - and even in London the idea that you might have, say 73 women and you have more than one or two with African heritage seems odd in itself.
Seb Member	Sat Nov 25 15:06:20 Rugian: Rate payers money, not taxpayer money. Big difference. Murder: Unlikely, the plague dead were largely buried in pits unless you had wealth and status, and the 1300's was during the feudal period.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Nov 26 07:03:55 "The report also acknowledges the sample size is small and that it has been careful to avoid what it termed as "the incorrect and harmful implication that there is a biological basis of race and we actively oppose the incorrect inference that there is something inherent to people assigned to a certain racial category that makes them more vulnerable to disease"." Even as they point to the weakness in their study, they manage to get almost everything wrong. There is a biological basis for "race" (in this specific case individuals of African vs European lineages), and different lineages have inherent differences (genetic) in vulnerability to disease!
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Nov 26 07:15:46 There is a straight forward explanation (if the data is valid) that explains why people with darker skin would be a risk group for infectious disease, living in Europe. Vitamin D deficiency. In this climate they are inherently more at risk of vitamin D deficiency, which lead to all kind of bad outcomes, among them negative effects on the immune system. The alternative cost of this woke racism is that black people literally will die of things that can be remedied fairly easily, because nobody is looking for real explanation, it's all racism AKA "god did it".
murder Member	Sun Nov 26 11:29:50 "Unlikely, the plague dead were largely buried in pits unless you had wealth and status, and the 1300's was during the feudal period." I don't have any knowledge of Africans in England in 1300s. I brought up the handling of the dead because even today there are issues with the spread of infectious diseases such as Ebola ... and women would be the ones tasked with cleaning the bodies and such.
Seb Member	Sun Nov 26 12:44:15 Murder: Oh, misunderstood what you were getting at!
	show deleted posts

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