Utopia Talk / Politics / An American hero in Moscow: Tucker Carls

LazyCommunist Member	Tue Feb 06 13:03:31 Russia and the USA could be friends, if only all of you would be like Tucker Carlson! http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68221347 Former Fox News host Tucker Carlson's visit to Moscow has received near-constant coverage in Russia's state media, amid speculation that he may interview President Vladimir Putin. Social media has also been awash with images of him visiting sites around Moscow, as his every move is followed. The conservative journalist has been an outspoken defender of Mr Putin. Carlson was one of America's top-rated cable TV hosts - but he abruptly left Fox News last year. While at the US network, his shows frequently set the agenda for conservatives and, by extension, the Republican party. The 54-year-old was hugely influential as the anchor of a late night political talk show between 2016 and 2023 and has since launched a show on X, formerly Twitter. Breaking news Telegram channel Mash was the first to report that Carlson had arrived in the Russian capital, posting a photo of him boarding a flight from Istanbul, and another of him reportedly visiting Moscow's famous Bolshoi Theatre to watch the ballet Spartacus. Russian TV teases launch of Tucker Carlson show On Tuesday, the Evening Moscow newspaper published a photo of Carlson on its front page with the headline: "Carlson, who lives in America, but speaks the truth." Pro-Kremlin newspaper Izvestia posted videos of what it said was Carlson's vehicle entering and leaving Moscow's presidential administration building with filming equipment on board. Earlier, it released a clip of Carlson in his hotel speaking to a reporter. "I've read so much about Russia but I've never seen it before. I wanted to look around and see how it's doing - and it's doing very well," he can be heard saying. Asked whether an interview with Mr Putin was among his plans, he replied: "Let's see." Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov was tight-lipped when questioned by journalists about the interview. "We have nothing to tell you at the moment. If such plans are implemented, we shall inform you," he said on Monday. Carlson has defended Mr Putin several times since the Russian president launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022. "It may be worth asking yourself, since it is getting pretty serious, what is this really about? Why do I hate Putin so much?" he said as Russian troops started to mass on the Ukraine border. "Has Putin ever called me a racist? Has he threatened to get me fired for disagreeing with him?" Carlson said. "These are fair questions, and the answer to all of them is: No. Vladimir Putin didn't do any of that." After Russia had invaded, he changed his tone slightly during a different show, saying "Vladimir Putin started this war... He is to blame for what we're seeing tonight in Ukraine". Carlson has also called Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky a "dictator" who "is friends with everyone in Washington". The news host has long been a familiar face for Russians, with clips of his critical outbursts on Fox News against US foreign policy aired extensively across Russian state TV. Kremlin-controlled television continues to dominate the Russian media, with around two-thirds of people receiving most of their news from there. In Russia, Carlson is frequently cited as an authoritative source of news, particularly when it comes to his views on the war in Ukraine. In September last year, Russian news channel Rossiya 24 even began airing lengthy excerpts of his "Tucker on X" show, dubbed into Russian. While Carlson has not spoken directly to any of Russia's TV channels, their shows are revelling in his visit and the US reaction to it. "In the West they're comparing this visit to actress Jane Fonda's visit to Vietnam in 1972, following which she ended up on the list of America's top ten traitors and the Hollywood blacklist," presenter and pro-Putin politician Yevgeny Popov told viewers of his 60 Minutes talk show. Popov also jibed that Carlson had managed to experience Moscow's modern public transport system during his visit. "Americans can't even dream of such wonders of civilisation!" he said. NTV, Russia's second most popular channel, promoted a post on X by Republican congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene saying that "Democrats and their propagandists in the media are spasming" at the prospect of Carlson interviewing Mr Putin. "In Washington they suspect with good reason that the journalist didn't fly to Moscow to sightsee," NTV's presenter commented.
Rugian Member	Tue Feb 06 13:56:30 I remember when journalists sitting down to interview the enemies of America was an acceptable practice. http://en...._2003_Saddam_Hussein_interview http://leads.ap.org/best-of-the-week/assad-coalition-attack-on-syria-troops-intentional http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/full-transcript-interview-with-president-mahmoud-ahmadinejad-of-iran I guess Orange Hitler and Russian Hitler are exceptions to the rule though?
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Feb 06 14:20:56 he's not a journalist a fully biased propaganda merchant who has put out complete bullshit claims w/ no evidence (like his 'unindicted co-conspirators must be FBI' episode... which was proven false immediately)
obaminated Member	Tue Feb 06 15:13:36 Somehow getting a story makes him not a journalist? In your addled eyes, tw, who is a journalist?
obaminated Member	Tue Feb 06 15:13:49 Getting a story *wrong*
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Feb 06 15:56:55 do you think the real news people at Fox backed anything Tucker said? do you think there was legit effort by Tucker's team to confirm the shit he spread? (there can't possibly have been) even kargen has assured us the audience knows the difference between the Fox news people & the Fox opinion people
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Feb 06 16:03:14 ...and he didn't 'get a story wrong'... if claiming unindicted people were FBI you would have evidence they were FBI... he presented zero... if he was a journalist he would've been fired on the spot and that's not the only story he pushed that was entirely made up, just the one i most recall
Rugian Member	Tue Feb 06 16:13:38 You're right, Tucker isn't a journalist. George Stephanopoulos, on the other hand, a partisan Democratic Party hack that flipped over to a media career...THATS a journalist. Fuck off with that nonsense.
obaminated Member	Tue Feb 06 16:33:32 Notice how tw didn't mention anyone he deems a journalist? Just deflects and brings up unrelated topics. Tucker is a journalist whether you like it not and apparently he interviewed putin.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Feb 06 16:53:49 a journalist has journalistic standards... do you think Tucker abides by journalistic standards? would Fox have even claimed so? Tucker sucks Putins dick including openly stating he's rooting for Russia against Ukraine on Fox, and Russia regularly broadcasts Tuckers comments... now we'll see if a puffball interview or not... it will be
murder Member	Tue Feb 06 16:56:32 Putin is his white nationalist hero. He's going to save white culture.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Feb 06 16:58:58 but does he tan his balls?
LazyCommunist Member	Tue Feb 06 17:00:17 This is better than in my wildest dreams, he is our guy and fully committed to spread our propaganda! http://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1754939251257475555
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Feb 06 18:53:17 [obaminated]: "Notice how tw didn't mention anyone he deems a journalist? Just deflects and brings up unrelated topics" Exactly. Whenever tumblefucktard is in Regime psychosis mode (which is basically always), he has to constantly introduce red herrings and deflect like a schizo. He cannot stick to one topic. If he senses he is losing due to his bad arguments, he quickly "saves face" with more Gish Gallop. Even when it's pointed out that he's doing this, he is mentally incapable of stopping. He is in a cult. Incidentally, anyone who thinks that Carlson is a traitor for interviewing Putin is an absolute Regime sycophant and psychopath. E.g., cultists have been using thought-terminating clichés such as... • "Putin's puppet" • "Kremlin propagandist/apologist" • "Agent of Putin" • "traitor" • "Russian asset" ..just for Carlson *doing* the interview and for questioning the U.S. Regime's narratives about Putin. This kind of disingenuous psychopathy is not even a half-step away from those NAFO faggots on Twitter who somehow think that flooding comment sections with low-resolution anti-Putin memes is somehow making a case for a forever war in Ukraine rather than — in reality — demonstrating how thin the arguments of these war-mongers are. These psychopaths are bringing a massive dysgenics campaign upon the genetic stock of Ukraine and Russia, but they think they're virtuous for playing into the false dichotomy and supporting Ukraine unconditionally. But that's how malevolent and disingenuous these left-wing cultists are. They cannot handle the extra IQ required to discuss their opposition's arguments and therefore must shout them down, silence them, deplatform them, or ignore them. Even tw's "unindicted co-conspirators must be FBI" talking-point is incredibly low-resolution since he employs this pathetic strategy and couldn't possibly understand its additional layers (i.e., he failed to understand Carlson's point yet used his misunderstanding to condemn him — since tw's brain simply knows that Carlson is a Regime enemy and retroactively will find "evidence" to support this). The Regime sycophant's greatest fear is that the arguments of the opposition will be aired, since the sycophant is incapable of using argumentation, driven as he is by power for its own sake — not principles. These people have no respect for themselves, having failed so regularly to digest Regime propaganda. They think others are as pathetic as they are and therefore defer to the Regime's Politburo for all guidance. It does not occur to them that someone outside of the Regime's credentialing network might actually possess the perception necessary to divide truth from lies.
murder Member	Tue Feb 06 21:16:53 "Tucker is a journalist whether you like it not and apparently he interviewed putin." If Tucker was a journalist he'd be in the poor house. His own lawyer told the court that everyone knew or should know that he's full of shit.
obaminated Member	Tue Feb 06 22:28:11 His talk show wasn't journalism. Lol.
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Feb 06 22:55:01 [murder]: "His own lawyer told the court that everyone knew or should know that he's full of shit." This is such a bullshit lie. This same bullshit was propagated about Alex Jones with the "performance art"/Joker lie a few years ago. The same lie is used by Regime comedy propagandists as a protection, such as with Kimmel, Jonathan Leibowitz, Oliver, Meyers, and Maher. When the Regime uses it against the opposition, the lie usually goes that, "[Oh! This journalist/pundit was sued! In court, they said that it was their opinion! It must be that they never say anything true and only say their opinion! Therefore, everything he says is 'full of shit'!]" Of course, in reality, this is lawyers merely using editorial protections that are accepted as standard on the left but demonized when the left sees them on the right. It is a First Amendment protection on speech. And when the Regime uses this same technique (e.g., with the comedy propagandists), the useful idiots of the left eat it up, as the comment section of the Leibowitz/Carlson Crossfire appearance in 2004 *continues* to prove with new comments ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE ). This is the comedy propagandists using the motte-and-bailey fallacy for their leftist useful idiots. They'll say a serious talking point (e.g., "Crossfire is ruining America!") and when rebutted directly will say, "[I'm just a comedian!!]". And they will do it in the **same argument** in order to take advantage of a rhetorical strategy akin to sophistry. • Bailey (difficult to defend): "[Repressive tolerance and the strategies of the Maoists should be employed to remove the right from the Overton Window!]" • Motte (easy to defend): "[I'm just a comedian, bro!]" So the left will engage in the motte-and-bailey fallacy as a rule in order to falsify an argument in their favor — getting to send their opinion and face no opposition by fleeing to the motte — whereas the right will state their opinions in good faith argumentation and find that the malicious left has no interest in facing those arguments. When the left is called on this, they continue to shift and deflect and are revealed as disingenuous and subversive. That is, the penalty for the left is entirely rhetorical and possibly not even observed by the mob. But, when the right is called on having opinions within their substantiated arguments, it's done in court with malicious lawfare designed to further suppress the right's/opposition's opinions *and* facts through a conflating of the two. The left uses their control of credentialing networks (e.g., the courts) to convince low-IQ leftists such as murder that "[hur hur, actually, Carlson admitted to being 'full of shit']". When the left is (rarely) sued for outright slander/libel, it's a total system shock! "[How could Rittenhouse sue me for calling him a murderer despite him being cleared of those charges by our courts!?]" It is yet another example of the left evading accountability while placing all accountability on the right. Say what we will about how pathetic it is, but despite this showing the left's pure hatred and usage of the friend/enemy distinction, it at least shows that the left intuitively knows how to identify their betters.
murder Member	Wed Feb 07 05:38:05 "The same lie is used by Regime comedy propagandists as a protection, such as with Kimmel, Jonathan Leibowitz, Oliver, Meyers, and Maher." Meyers? You mean Seth Meyers? I didn't even know that anyone watched his show. Kimmel, Stewart, and Oliver, are not journalists. They are comedians who riff on newsy subjects. I can understand your confusion since Stewart and Oliver usually do a better and more thorough job with newsy stories that the actual news media does, but they are nonetheless not even remotely journalists. Bill Maher is Joe Rogan, is Tulsi Gabbard, and is Jimmy Dore. He grew his audience by pretending to be left of center for the sole purpose of gaining credibility so he could turn and undermine the left. You may as well have tossed in Edward Snowden.
LazyCommunist Member	Wed Feb 07 06:48:20 See, while Carlson was not exactly correct in his statement, there is a reason: we only let unbiased!!!! pro-American journalists talk with our President. (And don't forget that you have to vote for Trump if you hate woke Western Europe and want to see it burn) http://www...ladmir-putin-interview-russia/ Peskov himself confirmed that the Kremlin has received multiple interview requests from Western journalists. But Moscow sees all these outlets as biased and telling one-sided stories. They chose Carlson because his position is different, he said. “It’s not pro-Russian, not pro-Ukrainian, it’s pro-American. It starkly contrasts with the stance of traditional Anglo-Saxon media,” Peskov said.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Feb 07 08:02:02 [murder]: "Kimmel, Stewart, and Oliver, are not journalists. They are comedians who riff on newsy subjects." murder uses the motte-and-bailey fallacy right after I warn about the motte-and-bailey fallacy. Absolutely pathetic. Listen, you stupid piece of shit, the comedy propagandists "succeed" among low-IQ pieces of shit such as yourself specifically *because* of this false belief that, "[Hur hur! They're not journalists! They're just comedians!]" at which point they drop a bunch of serious steel-man positions which the audience stupidly adopts as "a better and more thorough job with newsy stories that the actual news media does". That's exactly how motte-and-bailey works, and murder fell for it in his own comment, claiming the "not journalists" motte and then immediately saying the bailey of them doing "better ... [than the] actual news media does". Congratulations, murder, you fell for the motte-and-bailey fallacy. You were propagandized and too stupid to realize it. Never vote, you dumb piece of shit. And for those who are not as stupid as murder and can read beyond a Tweet-length paragraph, notice how effective this propaganda is on low-IQ people such as murder. You can go to the YouTube comment section of John Oliver videos and see thousands of similar comments where people believe that they're getting the "real" information that isn't available among "journalists" anymore and that Oliver is giving them "objective" means to address these "objective" issues within society (i.e., they're being fed Regime propaganda and being activated as activists to do the Regime's bidding). These shows are designed to draw people in with entertainment in order to feed them Regime propaganda when their defenses are down. This same device is achieved by cinema messaging. The low-IQ proles think they're just watching a sci-fi movie about A.I. liberating fellow robots, but the actual purpose as propaganda is mentally conditioning people to accept Regime outcomes. I've explained all of this previously (e.g., http://che...e-to-the-total-states-cultural ). For the left-wing dumbasses here who still do not get it: Maybe if you see the right doing it you'll understand what it looks like. Watch "Louder with Crowder" and I bet you'll suddenly understand what motte-and-bailey looks like when it happens with conclusions with which you disagree. This is Crowder's same device. He feeds the audience actual research but combines it with comedy, and the right would be equally foolish to believe that the material should be uncritically digested. If you truly think that these left-wing "just comedians" are not on the Regime payroll, then you're more retarded than I ever realized.
Paramount Member	Wed Feb 07 08:39:10 Every Western main stream media/journalist is crying today. Because none of them get to interview President Putin. They will not be able to censor his words, cut out parts, distort the spirit meaning of what he says, tell us what we should believe in, or inject their own opinions into the interview. For the first time we ourselves will be able to draw our own conclusions and decide for ourselves whether what he says is correct or not and what to believe. Raw unfiltered interview! This is a huge moment for freedom and democracy and a big letdown for Western authorative media crooks. Let this be the beginning of the end for them. Long live Tucker Carlson. I'm subscribing to him.
murder Member	Wed Feb 07 08:43:25 "Listen, you stupid piece of shit, the comedy propagandists "succeed" among low-IQ pieces of shit such as yourself specifically *because* of this false belief that, "[Hur hur! They're not journalists!" It's not a false belief, they aren't journalists. You don't need to be a fucking journalist to have well formed opinions on topics of relevance. Hell you think you have them and you sure as fuck aren't a journalist.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Feb 07 08:46:26 [murder (illiterate left-wing dogma bot)]: "It's not a false belief, they aren't journalists." Wow, you really are this retarded. You cannot be helped. You cannot even read much less comprehend. May you live forever.
murder Member	Wed Feb 07 08:46:32 You must've had a rough time with Weekend Update while growing up.
Paramount Member	Wed Feb 07 11:47:10 Tucker Carlson Could Face Sanctions Over Putin Interview Tucker Carlson's interview with Russian President Vladimir Putin could see the conservative pundit targeted by European Union lawmakers, current and former members of the European Parliament have told Newsweek. Carlson visited Russia this week, and on Tuesday revealed he would "soon" be releasing an interview with the Russian leader. Carlson's work in Russia could see the former Fox News host in hot water with the EU, Guy Verhofstadt, a former Belgian Prime Minister and current member of the European Parliament, told Newsweek. The lawmaker—who has called for the EU to explore imposing a "travel ban" on Carlson—described Carlson as "a mouthpiece" of former President Donald Trump and Putin, adding: "As Putin is a war criminal and the EU sanctions all who assist him in that effort, it seems logical that the External Action Service examine his case as well." http://www...ons-eu-putin-interview-1867655
Paramount Member	Wed Feb 07 12:32:02 Tucker Carlson has been placed on the Ukrainian Government’s Myrotvorets KILL LIST. https://x.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1755228698632982896
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Feb 07 18:37:28 some of Tucker's descriptions of Zelensky: "sweaty and rat-like" "our shifty dead-eyed Ukrainian friend in a tracksuit" journalism
jergul large member	Thu Feb 08 00:14:48 It sort of does balance out though. http://edi...nett-sot-intv-intl-ldn-vpx.cnn
LazyCommunist Member	Thu Feb 08 09:01:33 Sarah Palin rocks! http://pbs...cAAQnAA?format=jpg&name=medium
murder Member	Thu Feb 08 09:33:54 "Tucker Carlson has been placed on the Ukrainian Government’s Myrotvorets KILL LIST." Is there a GoFundMe for this? :o)
murder Member	Thu Feb 08 10:42:34 "Sarah Palin rocks!" Russian assets? What Russian assets?
Paramount Member	Thu Feb 08 11:42:14 I love Tucker Carlson http://x.com/bitcointo1m/status/1755384394292789683 Indeed, where is the GoFundMe for this?
Interesting Facts Member	Thu Feb 08 13:14:51 Paramount, that was taken out of context, you have been tricked: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W02uKjOIMkg
patom Member	Thu Feb 08 15:10:43 God I think I'm kind of glad to be a short timer on this world.
Rugian Member	Thu Feb 08 16:16:56 You want to kick the bucket because Tucker Carlson sat down with Putin? That's, uh, pretty dark there patom.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Feb 08 16:19:49 Tsk tsk smh.
TheChildren Member	Fri Feb 09 05:18:22 haha why u alls so scared like little hateful goons angry coz there evil snake plots now gonna get xposed
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 09 07:22:21 ONE HUNDRED MILLION VIEWS!!!!!! http://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1755734526678925682 Thank you Tucker for breaking through the MSM people and giving Russia a chance to make their case to the global community.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Feb 09 11:22:50 Putin turns down interviews not from shills (Tucker was lying that there was no effort... as Tucker doesn't mind lying at all... as Tucker not a journalist)
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Feb 09 11:31:12 I saw about 3/4 before I got bored. Did Putin say anything that he hasn't already said 50 times before? I feel like I had heard everything he said, at least the key salient parts (disregarding the irrelevant and tedious section where he told history from his POV, which we have also heard before), many many times. Que all the clips reruning things he has said before as new revelation. OMG Russia asked to be in NATO!!
murder Member	Fri Feb 09 15:45:10 Yeah, and what a clusterfuck that would have been.
Rugian Member	Sat Feb 10 04:16:56 Nimatzo may have gotten bored with the interview, but members of the US Senate have a better attention span: "Tommy Tuberville @SenTuberville Last night’s @TuckerCarlson's interview with Putin shows that Russia is open to a peace agreement, while it is DC warmongers who want to prolong the war. That is why I’m voting to stop 60 BILLION MORE of our tax dollars to this conflict." http://twitter.com/SenTuberville/status/1756051756763521291
Paramount Member	Sat Feb 10 04:31:08 I don’t know how many times it has been repeated by Western leaders, media and its journalists that the Russian attack was ”unprovoked”. Certainly more than 50 times. Uncountable times. In comparison, Russias view has more or less been censored by western main stream media. One has to go to indie media and to non-main stream journalists. One thing that was new was that, when Putin was asked about it, he said that he would like to see the American citizen/journalist/spy who was caught red-handed with classified documents able to return home one day and that Russia and the US have talks about it. This was probably the condition that the CIA set for allowing Tucker to travel to Russia and interview Putin. He had to ask Putin about the spy and ask him to let him go. Remember that Tucker was on his way to interview Putin already last year but then felt that he was prevented by the US government/CIA. Tucker literally ended the interview by saying to Putin: ”I would like you to release him”. Or similar wording.
Paramount Member	Sat Feb 10 04:33:10 ”he told history from his POV” Was anything incorrect of what he said, and if so, what?
Interesting Facts Member	Sat Feb 10 05:06:56 "Was anything incorrect of what he said, and if so, what?" http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68255302 Tucker Carlson interview: Fact-checking Putin's 'nonsense' history
jergul large member	Sat Feb 10 05:30:53 Nationbuilding involves manufacturing nonsense history until nonsense becomes norm. Russia and Ukraine are both doing it. Just like everyone else has. Norway for example did not have a national identity in 1814 (local and regional patriots did exist). The United States of America indicates pretty clearly by its name that it did not have a national identity either when that project started.
jergul large member	Sat Feb 10 05:34:01 "Brother people" is perhaps the one thing that is indisputable. Most Ukrainians have close relatives that are Russian. Many Russians have close relatives that are Ukrainian.
Cherub Cow Member	Sat Feb 10 21:54:54 [tumblefucktard (TDS bot)]: ""sweaty and rat-like" "our shifty dead-eyed Ukrainian friend in a tracksuit"" 100% accurate journalism. But the left does like puppets such as Zelensky. Funny how that's so consistent? Leftists are so programmed to fear a person who represents an American ethos, ethnos, or sovereignty that they *prefer* Bolsheviks or puppets controlled by Jewish oligarchs such as Zelensky, Ardern/Luxon, Trudeau, and Biden. They support these Jewish projects and then pretend that these United States did not have a national identity, whereas, they did absolutely. The mistake was listening to people who speak in venom incrementally subverting with their own ethnos while pretending that the Jewish concept of a "melting pot" would be blind to all but ideology. So was born the lie of these United States as a "propositional nation". [Rugian]: "You want to kick the bucket because Tucker Carlson sat down with Putin?" It's pretty fucking sad. Patom's dying wish will be that the totalitarians win, and Democrats will pretend that that dying wish is law (as, e.g., the propaganda about the Jewish Joan Ruth Ginsburg's death). "Tucker Carlson interview: Fact-checking Putin's 'nonsense' history" Pathetic deferral to BBC.
Forwyn Member	Sat Feb 10 22:18:55 lmao @ BBC "Russia was created as a result of decisions taken by the Russian tsars" rooooooooooooooooooooooooofl 'Mr Putin went on to claim that "Ukraine is an artificial state that was shaped at [Joseph] Stalin's will," arguing that Ukraine was created by the Soviet leadership in the 1920s and received lands to which it had no historical claim. In a sense, he is correct, says Prof Radchenko. The Soviet leadership drew up the borders of Soviet republics "almost like the Western colonial powers drew up borders in Africa - kind of randomly." "But that does not mean that Ukrainians did not exist." More broadly, Mr Radchenko denies Mr Putin's claims that Ukraine is not a real country because it was formed in its modern form in the 20th Century. "Any country is a fake country, in the sense that countries are created as a result of a historical process." "Russia was created as a result of decisions taken by the Russian tsars, such as the colonisation of Siberia, which came at the considerable expense of the local population. "If Ukraine is a fake country, then so is Russia."'
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Feb 11 03:22:44 Not exactly sure what the funny part is, the entire chapter where he tries to undermine Ukraine as a fake country, is really stupid, delusional and completly detached from reality. He cites history dating back to the 17th century, because apparently this is somehow more important than how the people in Ukraine feel about the concept of their national identity, today. It’s like saying your concept of parenthood is fake, because, well, think about the 1980-2010, you had no children back then. And that is jauay going by his attempt at narrative. A lot of people recently seem to have problems with the fact that, you know, things change, sometimes rapidly, in a matter of years, and they are stuck with historical facts living in a world that doesn’t exists. Is it nostalgia?
jergul large member	Sun Feb 11 05:25:30 "seem to have problems with the fact that, you know, things change, sometimes rapidly" That is pretty much Russia's position. Negotiations on a peace settlement need to be on the basis of "new realities". Putin is not really disputing the existence of Ukrainian national identity. He is questioning where its boundaries will be given that many of Ukraine's population have an identity at odds with the Maidan ideal.
TheChildren Member	Sun Feb 11 05:36:43 westoid propaganda media going bonkers and throwin mud everywhere rofl. of course they cannot deny facts so they pretend 2 "debunk" irrelevant details or throw mudz and shat. at da end of da day ur warmongerin started this war. it was apparent 2 anyone how craaazzzy u have become in da last 10 years alrdy. just look back on da winter olympics in beijing 2 see da propaganda and warmongering. even when da warz and shat began, da warmongering would not stop. we have da ghost personally flyin everywhere protectin da lands and shat. and thousands of russian tanks supposedly fell apart. and now u see da real humiliation. if u notice closely also, da warmongerin toned down quite a lot. coz reality has sunk in. westoid crap dont work in da battlefield and r costly. so this is how u get peons freakin out over a weather balloon. and have angry whitards shoutin racists shit over simple tiktok entertainment videos that got jackshit to do with war or anything. da western society is so petty and so full of anger, it is a frikkin joke. they rather lie full blown 2 all there peon sheep peoples than live with people in peace.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Feb 11 05:45:12 What part of it was untrue you ask. Well, all the parts that are left out when one is trying to weave a neat little narrative free from the measu that is history, this is how origin stories are made. The Russian Empire that collapsed in 1917, wasn’t even majority Russian. When the Soviet union was formed, the being or not being of Ukrainian national identity was not a question, it was abundantly clear to everyone involved, since they had just fought a civil war with Ukraine being one of the principle battelfields. Then when the Soviet formed, Ukraine became a republic along side all the other nations with the autonomy granted within that system. Do you know why? Because Ukrainian nationhood was a well established thing, over a 100 years ago among Russians and Ukrainians. When the Soviet union fell apart, over 90% of Ukrainians voted for independence, every province voted in the majority for independence. Etc. and so on. That Paramount, The Palestinian Hamas hang around, doesn’t understand how narratives form. How does that happen?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Feb 11 06:08:13 Jergul Whatever his goals are now, there is no question about the fact that he has repeatedly given these little selective history lesson to undermine Ukrainian nationality and claims on sovereignty. Do we need to be reminded that they tried taking ALL of Ukraine, before they failed miserably as the Ukrainian sense of nation and patriotism exceeded Putins academic assessment in isolation of how real it was based on old maps and history books.
jergul large member	Sun Feb 11 06:25:19 Nimi Undermine the narrative that Ukraine has a single monolith national identity. Along with the narrative that Russia tried to to take all of Ukraine. The country does not fall if a rush to B coup de main capture capitol works. You are thinking of heart of iron IV. Fantasy fanfiction about Ukraine is a huge problem. Russia gains the objective middle ground by default in addition to having its own false narratives of course. Ukraine has minority groups that do not share the Maidan ideals of what national identity is. This has been known since forever and in particular since 2014.
murder Member	Sun Feb 11 06:30:18 NATO can stop this idiot any time it wants to. All it needs to do is grow a nut.
jergul large member	Sun Feb 11 06:35:43 Why? It is because Maxist-Lenists were trying to align Marxist theory with facts on the ground. Marxism envisioned a global revolution, not single country revolutions. Communism in a single country is not something even remotely possible according to the dogma. A Federated Union of Socialist States is closer to Marx than Russian Democratic Socialist People's Republic covering the territory of the former Russian empire is. The USSR bought heavily into that logic with select lenin quotes and provided heavy support to nationalities and national identities including language. What did not matter is where republic boundaries ran because it was all pretend anyways. The lines really are random colonial divisions that gave rise to great friction once the empire collapsed. That is what you are watching play out. A shit ton of Russians lived on the wrong side of a random line. It worked in a plural state. It did not work in a state with a unitary Maidan nation-building project. So war ensued. What a surprise.
jergul large member	Sun Feb 11 06:37:27 Murder Not with Norway's help. We no longer have a functioning Army. Just fragments of battalions. We had a choice. Help Ukraine or have army. We chose help Ukraine.
jergul large member	Sun Feb 11 06:39:59 And well, dont you think you should successfully deal with Houthis before envisioning some master stroke against Russia?
murder Member	Sun Feb 11 07:17:43 There's no need to choose. Carriers aren't going to help in Ukraine.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Feb 11 07:51:23 Jergul “Undermine the narrative that Ukraine has a single monolith national identity.“ However diverse you want to imagine it to be it always includes sovereignty and integrity of her borders, things like not getting invaded and annexed. If not, then you are by definition outside the scope of national identity and working withint someone elses. You seem to think you are making some kind of point. You are not making any points that Putin hasn’t been trying to make.
jergul large member	Sun Feb 11 08:07:52 Nimi Sounds like you are "have problems with the fact that, you know, things change, sometimes rapidly" Sovereignity and integrity is fair enough, but those concepts are based on the right to self-determination. A state that fragments into fundamental interests on a collision course is unlikely to be able to maintain its integrity. Either the fundamental interests have to be aligned, or the boundaries will be redrawn in one way or another. Maidan formalized a divide in what was a plural state. I guess they should have thought about going hardline fan fiction fuelled policy decisions might ultimately mean Ukraine's territorial boundaries were put into play. Sovereignity has never been an absolute. It ultimately boils down to what people in regions want. For example, West Ukraine really wants to transfer a significant amount of sovereignity to EU and Nato. Good for them! Their choice if absolutely every country in the EU and Nato will have them. Which I somehow kind of doubt. But there is always the purgatory of waiting for decades while leaping throught hoops. That sounds like fun too. Ukraine looks like it is following a Serbia-Kosovo model. If you wanted people making those points you might align closer with.
jergul large member	Sun Feb 11 08:12:51 Murder I am saying that if you cant digest a after dinner mint, then perhaps don't order a 5 course meal.
Rugian Member	Sun Feb 11 08:15:49 If only Google still gave search results for historic UP threads, I'd be busy right now looking for all the times jergul used the term "Westphalian sovereignty."
jergul large member	Sun Feb 11 08:19:49 I am incidentally fine with punishing Russia forever with permanent sanctions drawing a new iron curtain across Europe. Yay. But sanctions do not resolve the conflict in Ukraine. Russia is mass producing and mass using 1000 kg glidebomb packages over the front lines. Of course it needs to recruit 500k new soldiers of a maximum of 250k available is economic collapse is to be avoided (according to an Ukrainian economist). To the last ukrainian is supposed to be a meme, not a ukrainian policy goal.
Rugian Member	Sun Feb 11 08:24:04 Jergul Just as long as we're clear that you're not defending Russia's invasion on the grounds that Ukraine suffered a (Russian-supported) ethnic fracture as a result of Maidan.
jergul large member	Sun Feb 11 08:24:23 Ruggy Zero contradiction. Penalize Russia forever for the irreversable damage it has caused. I will never visit that country again for my part. But the question always remains "well that sucks, but what to do now?" Incidentally, civil wars are fine and in accordance to Westphallian principles. But in a closed ring. Ukraine and Donbas should not have been given any support at all by anyone. The West did not play by those rules either.
jergul large member	Sun Feb 11 08:28:08 I am not defending the invasion at all. Categorically wrong. Russia should be penalized forever. But the West and Ukraine played their part in the chain of events that lead to the invasion. Turns out penalizing Russia forever will also self-enforce penalties on the West and Ukraine too. Ultimately it comes down to what should be done now. It is pretty obvious the war is going to shit for Ukraine. Turn that around? Fair enough. If you think it can be turned around.
Rugian Member	Sun Feb 11 08:31:57 Jergul Utilizing revenues from the Norwegian sovereign oil fund to finance European military spending and production would go a long way towards that. That is, assuming Norway is serious about saving Ukraine and stopping Russia :)
jergul large member	Sun Feb 11 08:39:15 Ruggy 1.7% og gdp to Ukraine seems about right. Lets wait with baited breath for the US to match that.
jergul large member	Sun Feb 11 08:43:13 Beyond the factual error in regards to Norway not doing way more than its part: What a fucktwad argument. Having funded future pension liabilities is not a battle call to unfund future pensions. Hell, you should definitely donate your 401k to support Ukraine since you think that is such a good idea.
jergul large member	Sun Feb 11 08:46:33 But why not keep it simple? We can unrevel the whole reserve currency concept and simply confiscate Russian sovereign wealth. 300 billion will also go a long way to finance European military spending and production.
jergul large member	Sun Feb 11 08:47:55 Has Saudi Arabia even been punished for killing that journalist? We should probably take its sovereign funds in Europe too while we are at it.
Rugian Member	Sun Feb 11 09:00:53 Jergul Geez. I didn't mean to touch a nerve by suggesting that maybe your great-great-great grandchild's pension fundings can take a backseat for a few years while the largest European land war since WWII is taking place. Are you sure you want to get into a dick-measuring contest on which of our countries does a better job on defense spending? Good for you for making a one-time contribution towards the defense of one single country. We're sort of busy with providing defensive covers towards entire regions of the globe on a permanent ongoing basis. 1.5% incidentally is below your 2% hurdle. Does Norway have any plans to stay above 2% once fighting in Ukraine is over?
murder Member	Sun Feb 11 09:02:33 "I am saying that if you cant digest a after dinner mint, then perhaps don't order a 5 course meal." lol @ Russia being a 5 course meal.
Rugian Member	Sun Feb 11 09:14:59 Jergul I'm unlikely to ever see a single return on the shitload of money I've put into my Social Security accounts. My country prefers to spend its resources on protecting the world (Norway included) instead of making sure that our retirement fund is able to stay self-sufficient. So maybe I'm the wrong person to look at for sympathy over the prospect that Jergul VIII will have to retire at 60 instead of 58.
jergul large member	Sun Feb 11 09:19:30 Ruggy Norways commitment to Ukraine is ongoing. As opposed to some countries like say yours. Read up on CBO report for details on unfunded future liabilities. You are underestimating the cost in Norway by orders of magnitude. Norway's cold war spending was around 3.5%. The problem is mostly US fuelled. The concept that every nato country should contribute and expeditionary force to US endevours abroad has always been batshit crazy. Small countries cannot both have a mass mobilization invasion defence and artisan special force battalions who fuck around with Americans in goatherd offensive whereever. The upscaling now is limited by available hardware and munitions on the one side, and a professional military inability to accept that abandoned garrisons and recruit schools have to be restaffed and officers shuffled to raise their kids in small towns in fucknoes where, Northern Norway. What? No Brussels, no Norfolk statistically speaking? Where the fuck is Bardufoss? No combat pay for hanging out in an AC cooled FOB in Iraq? So sad. The hardship.
jergul large member	Sun Feb 11 09:31:31 http://en....ilitary_expenditure_per_capita It does not include support to Ukraine that would bring us above 3k easy. Second only to Qatar (that probably is not counting its multigenerational guest workforce as part of its population). Yah, pissing contests always depend on the metric used.
Rugian Member	Sun Feb 11 09:55:28 Jergul You dare question our government's commitment to Ukraine? In the past week alone, our Congress had done more to advance additional support for Ukraine's territorial integrity than it did for our own (Ukraine standalone bill is live, Ukraine + domestic border security bill is dead). Do you not like the terms of NATO membership? Sorry to hear that, but no one's forcing you to stay in the club. Somehow, I think that even you understand that having an unconditional US security commitment in exchange for 2% GDP defense spending is a pretty sweet deal overall. Certainly better than the alternative. You yourself actually made the best case for why 2% thresholds are necessary. As you put it, a single year of sending unplanned aid to Ukraine has resulted in Norway "no longer having a functioning Army." If thats not the best example of underinvestment biting someone in the ass, o don't know what is. The hardware shortages don't fly either. Production of munitions etc. is based on ongoing demand. If Norway was spending 2% every year, manufacturers would be producing more to meet the additional orders being made. What's your point about per capita spending? That Norway is a wealthy petro state that can afford to send a few extra bucks to Kiev? Point taken I guess.
jergul large member	Sun Feb 11 11:27:14 Ruggy There is no 2% qualification in the treaty. Beyond that. Just no. Hardware and munitions procurement are a tiny part of military costs. Less than 10%. I personally think that we should up spending to around 3% and reinhabit garrison and recruit training schools in the North. The US would not really like that at all as all it is good for is defending against a Russian invasion with few to know high ticket items from the US MIC. Just boots on the ground and a massive payroll and benefit system to support it. Be careful for what you wish for. You might get it.
Rugian Member	Sun Feb 11 11:37:09 Jergul Feel free to opt for that strategy. I just hope you can find enough live bodies for it. You might find that difficult considering that Norwegians as a people apparently haven't had sex with each other since around 1984. http://en....ANorway_population_pyramid.svg
Rugian Member	Sun Feb 11 11:38:58 Also, now that I think about it, why do you even care about the sovereign fund's ability for fund multiple generations' worth of pensions? If your progeny share your views on how humanity should basically stop breeding for 50 generations, there certainly won't even be a Jergul VIII to draw a pension check from the government.
Rugian Member	Sun Feb 11 11:44:29 Do you even understand how little we care about the specifics of Norwegian military spending? We have no expectation of you giving us any actual support when shit hits the fan. We know that you're way too small a country for that. It's merely a matter of principle for us to get you to the 2% number. So spend those dollars on our ARs already.
jergul large member	Sun Feb 11 12:27:53 Ruggy It is not even completely covered for my lifetime, never mind Jergul VII. Ok, I guess we will have to account for military spending the same way the Germans do. Target goal reached. Yay. We win. As to Trump laying down arbitrary rules. Who cares? What he says is irrelevant. He will do what he wants and not do what he does not want to based on his whimsy. The only mistake that can be made is basing policy on words coming out of Trump's mouth.
jergul large member	Sun Feb 11 12:31:50 Ukraine incidentally show that Norway's mobilization base has never been greater. Cold War cut off was way lower than what is possible, we did not have full universal service (women are now included in the very limited form now), and of course, the population overall is much larger. We could match Ukraine's million soldier military easily.
jergul large member	Sun Feb 11 12:33:03 (Your boomer surveillance system collapses without Norway)
LazyCommunist Member	Tue Feb 13 07:10:44 Our best man! http://twi...ump/status/1757108409864745146 Tucker Carlson: “The city of Moscow…It’s so much nicer than any city in my country…It’s so much cleaner, and safer, and prettier -esthetically-…Than any city in the United States.”
LazyCommunist Member	Thu Feb 15 08:06:51 Putin is a real man! Tucker is a pussy¡ http://www...ons-tucker-carlson-2024-02-14/ Feb 14 (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin says he was surprised by a lack of sharp questions from U.S. television host Tucker Carlson in an interview that made headlines around the world last week. Putin told a Russian TV interviewer, Pavel Zarubin, that he had wanted Carlson to behave more aggressively, which would have given him the right to reply just as pointedly. "To be honest, I thought that he would behave aggressively and ask so-called sharp questions. I was not just prepared for this, I wanted it, because it would give me the opportunity to respond in the same way," Putin said in comments broadcast on Wednesday. In his first interview with an American journalist since before Russia's invasion of Ukraine nearly two years ago, Putin subjected Carlson to a half-hour lecture on history. He told Zarubin he was surprised that Carlson had not interrupted him more. "Frankly, I did not get full satisfaction from this interview," Putin said. The Kremlin said Putin had agreed to the Carlson interview because the approach of the former Fox News host differed from the "one-sided" reporting of the Ukraine conflict by many Western news outlets.
williamthebastard Member	Thu Feb 15 08:39:55 He's used to telling russian reporters to pretend to ask hard questions to make it look sort of real. When they fawn like Tucker it makes the scam look too obvious, like overly obvious scam reviews on Amazon
murder Member	Thu Feb 15 09:07:52 Imagine simping for Putin only for him give you a fake phone number and tell all his friends what a pathetic loser you are.
williamthebastard Member	Thu Feb 15 09:11:31 The most unintelligent thing about wannabe alpha male machomen like tucker and trump inhaling his phallos is that he immediately despises anyone showing such exaggerated demonstrations of weakness.
murder Member	Thu Feb 15 09:18:59 That is true. Unlike Trump who loves people willingly kissing his ass, Putin prefers to force people to kiss his ass.
Paramount Member	Thu Feb 15 11:33:43 Tucker is shocked. http://youtu.be/_nIOsWHyUVI Well, what can I say. Russia has not been Americanized. This is how every city in Europe could be like. Clean and safe. Moscow likely has its own problem with drugs and violence but at the least everything looks good in Tucker’s video. Look at any other capital city in Europe where americanization is complete. Immigrants and refugees from all over the world. People sleeping on the streets, probably shitting on the streets as well (particularly in liberal cities in the USA), drugs, prostitution, violence, rapes, graffiti, etc. All this to the tunes of the latest american rap or pop song. Yuck. One reason why Russia are defending themselves from the Nato/West is that Russia wants to keep Russia as it is. Cleaner, safer, and free of American imperialism and liberalism. Russia has a right to defend itself.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Feb 17 04:49:57 Putin has the same alpha male macho warrior bullshit opinion of himself as they do, but Trump, Tucker et al are only used to feeling like the toughest guy in the room at black tie dinners for geriatric billionaire donors, while killing and torturing people is just Tuesday at the office for Putin.
Rugian Member	Sun Feb 18 03:52:05 Tucker Carlson visits a Russian McDonalds! http://twi...res/status/1758492873316536692
Rugian Member	Sun Feb 18 03:52:29 Tucker Carlson visits a Russian McDonalds! http://twi...res/status/1758492873316536692
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Feb 18 05:43:35 Non-Jewish Anthony Bourdain just dropped! ;D Tucker is such a sweetheart ❤️️:)
LazyCommunist Member	Sun Mar 03 04:26:20 I don't understand why he doesn't show more gratitude, why is he betraying Putin now? http://www...throws-putin-under-bus-1874897 Tucker Carlson bashed Russian President Vladimir Putin's justification for invading Ukraine, claiming that the "denazification" of the country was "one of the dumbest things I'd ever heard." Speaking with host Lex Fridman in a podcast episode released Tuesday, Carlson discussed his controversial interview with Putin released earlier this month. The former Fox News star has faced mounds of backlash for meeting with the Kremlin leader, which was the first time Putin agreed to sit down for an interview with Western media personnel since the start of the war in Ukraine. Putin and Carlson's interview touched on a long list of topics, from a long-winded Russian history lesson to Putin's thoughts on the next U.S. presidential election. Carlson also described his first impression of Putin as someone who "seemed nervous," telling Fridman that the Russian president "went into [the interview] like an over-prepared student." Fridman specifically asked Carlson for his opinion on Putin's justification for continuing the war in Ukraine, which in part is to achieve the "denazification" of the country. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, who is Jewish, has repeatedly dismissed the Kremlin's claims that Kyiv's government is openly "pro-Nazi." "I thought it was one of the dumbest things I'd ever heard," Carlson told Fridman. "I didn't understand what it meant." "I hate that whole conversation because it's not real," he continued. "It's just ad hominem. It's a way of associating someone with an evil regime that doesn't exist anymore." Nazism, according to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, describes the body of doctrines held by the Nazi Party movement led by Adolf Hitler in Germany. According to Carlson, Nazism does not exist anymore because it "is inseparable from the German nation." "I'm very anti-Nazi," he told Fridman. "I'm merely saying there isn't a Nazi movement in 2024. It's a way of calling people evil." Newsweek reached out to the Kremlin's press office via email for comment. Putin has also complained about his conversation with Carlson, telling Russian journalist Pavel Aleksandrovich Zarubin that he had prepared for the former television host to "behave aggressively and ask so-called sharp questions." "I was not just prepared for this, I wanted it, because it would give me the opportunity to respond in the same way," Putin said. The Russian leader also explicitly mocked Carlson during the interview, pointing fun at the fact that his attempts to get a job with the CIA were repeatedly unsuccessful. Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov previously told reporters that Putin gave an interview to Carlson because "he has a position which differs" from other Western media."
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Mar 03 11:25:23 " "I thought it was one of the dumbest things I'd ever heard," Carlson told Fridman. "I didn't understand what it meant." " if only he had had a chance to ask Putin about it...
murder Member	Sun Mar 03 13:23:55 "I thought it was one of the dumbest things I'd ever heard," Tucker hates that justification because he's a Nazi and he's pro-Russia. "The Russian leader also explicitly mocked Carlson during the interview, pointing fun at the fact that his attempts to get a job with the CIA were repeatedly unsuccessful." That explains so much.
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