Utopia Talk / Politics / lol@seb

Sam Adams Member	Fri Mar 01 09:39:11 Your muslim imports and left wing loonies elected george galloway to your parliament? Lmfao
Rugian Member	Fri Mar 01 09:40:19 Wait, seriously? Oh shit lol!
Rugian Member	Fri Mar 01 09:44:15 "George Galloway, a controversial and outspoken critic of Israel and U.S. foreign policy, is set to return to to British Parliament after winning by-election Thursday night which he hailed as a victory “for Gaza.” The veteran campaigner, who once served in the U.K.’s Parliament as a Labour lawmaker before his expulsion from the party over his opposition to the Iraq war, used his speech after winning nearly 40 percent of the vote in the Rochdale constituency to attack the incumbent Labour leader, Keir Starmer. “You will pay a high price for the role that you have played in enabling, encouraging and covering for the catastrophe presently going on in occupied Gaza, in the Gaza Strip,” Galloway said. The by-election in northwest England had been triggered by the January death of the incumbent Labour lawmaker Tony Lloyd. Galloway repeated a strategy of appealing to Muslim voters in the ensuing race, putting the ongoing war between Israel and Hamas at the heart of his campaign. In campaign materials, Galloway explicitly attacked Starmer for his support for “Israel’s genocide in Gaza.” Galloway said he hopes his Workers Party of Britain can now replicate his success around the country. The party, which he has led since its formation in late 2019, calls for an “end to imperialist wars and financial domination, starting with withdrawal from NATO.” http://www...versial-lawmaker-wins-election Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha what an absolute embarrassment.
jergul large member	Fri Mar 01 09:47:02 I thought that in retrospect, opposition to the Iraq war has become mainstream. Or do you still think it was smert and justified given what we now know ruggy?
Paramount Member	Fri Mar 01 10:15:22 Starmer, or what’s his name? He has turned out to be an incompetent shitbag. People are leaving the Labour party. That’s why.
Rugian Member	Fri Mar 01 10:21:02 Jergul I haven't been pro-Iraq War for 19 or 20 years now. The problem isn't that he was anti-Iraq War, it's that he's anti-Western in general.
Rugian Member	Fri Mar 01 10:21:56 As evidenced by his playing to a Muslim constituency and coming out on the side of Gazan terrorists.
Seb Member	Fri Mar 01 14:35:43 Sam: Largely because the official Labour candidate went nuts and they withdrew their support. He will lose his seat in a few months
Seb Member	Fri Mar 01 14:36:36 Besides, you can hardly talk with the utter wingbats and senile politicians you guys elect. Plus trump.
Seb Member	Fri Mar 01 15:06:56 Jergul: Galloway didn't just oppose the war, he championed Sadam, took bribes from him, defrauded a charity amongst many other things.
Seb Member	Fri Mar 01 15:08:28 "Galloway is like a kind of vengeful folk devil of british politics, a malevolent figure who appears when the moral vacuum is so great that he can rise again to tenuously try to claim the high ground" as someone put it.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Mar 01 15:24:08 Galloway is considerably more retarded than our retards.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Mar 01 15:26:17 Like trump and rashida talib could mate while vacationing at fukushima and their offspring still wouldnt be as bad as galloway.
Rugian Member	Fri Mar 01 15:57:13 I dunno, Tlaib is a literal terrorist supporter who hates the US.
Seb Member	Sat Mar 02 05:18:56 Sam: Yeah but Galloway is elected to a minor independent MP, and you put folks like Taylor Greene on committees and Trump as president. And in any case I wouldn't say Galloway is mad or stupid - he knows exactly what he's doing - he's just incredibly cynical.
murder Member	Sat Mar 02 08:33:16 The US is in absolutely no position to mock any other nation's goofballs, wackos, and shitbags.
Rugian Member	Sat Mar 02 08:40:30 "and you put folks like Taylor Greene on committees" That's a wildly unfair comparison, pretty much everyone in the House is on committees. "and Trump as president." One of your two largest political parties spent a decent chunk of the 2010s being led by a far-left Communist.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Mar 02 11:37:57 http://twitter.com/IncMonocle/status/1763950522216673518 Your imports want to destroy everything your country has ever stood for seb.
Seb Member	Sat Mar 02 16:15:34 Rugian: That's an exactly fair comparison. The people of Rochdale elected a whacko to represent them who will have no power whatsoever. You elect whackos and put them in positions of actual power. "One of your two largest political parties spent a decent chunk of the 2010s being led by a far-left Communist." And as a direct result we ended up with Boris Johnson winning an election lately on the recognition he was terrible but not as bad as Corbyn. You guys, faced with a similar choice, chose Trump over Clinton. And both of these are entirely attributable to the crazy idea by both parties to adopt the US approach of allowing party members to select their leader rather than MPs as was previously the case. This is actually a terrible idea because party members are often extreme and odd individuals compared to the general electorate. The result is not particularly democratic and results in wingnuts in power that were population largely have very low confidence in.
Seb Member	Sat Mar 02 16:17:01 Sam: I know the met has imported police from the home counties but I'm not sure saying that protecting the statue of Churchill is quite the wholesale surpression of freedom of speech you imply.
Forwyn Member	Sat Mar 02 17:09:31 "you put folks like Taylor Greene on committees and Trump as president." MTG ran a fairly normal first campaign, the only thing that stuck out about her was, "Fuck the ATF", which is less crazy than the status quo.
Paramount Member	Sun Mar 03 02:43:54 The israel lobby, the failed Sunak and Starmer are having a meltdown. Love it. When the so called elite who has been bought by the israeli mafia is being defeated by the people, then it is ”a threat to democracy and our values”. Incredible interview of @georgegalloway after his electoral victory. The dishonesty of the questions by the @SkyNews journalist are maddening. How on earth can you assert that the VERY SAME people who voted for someone more than for all other major candidates COMBINED are worried about his win? And how can you characterize his victory as "divisive" when the very fact he united so many people behind his candidacy means he managed to... unite people like we rarely see anymore in liberal democracies! This type of questioning is literally Orwellian doublespeak, which is sadly par for the course in today's mainstream media... Thankfully Galloway is a masterful rhetorician and he made mincemeat of this poor excuse for a journalist, which makes it a very pleasing watch. http://x.com/rnaudbertrand/status/1763770064388657356
Paramount Member	Sun Mar 03 03:01:57 Sunak was never elected. Galloway was elected in a democratic election. Sunak: ”it is a threat to democracy”
Seb Member	Sun Mar 03 07:22:40 Sunak was elected an MP just like Galloway was. Btw, the turnout in Rochdale was low and there was no official Labour candidate. So essentially he was unopposed.
williamthebastard Member	Sun Mar 03 07:41:12 "MTG ran a fairly normal first campaign, the only thing that stuck out about her was, "Fuck the ATF"" Listen! Don't mention jewish space lasers, Obama being a blackie and thus not a real american and hence a muslim, GW Bush planned 911, Pizzagate, Qanon lizards, supporting execution of political rivals and on and on and on! I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right!
williamthebastard Member	Sun Mar 03 07:42:57 I know nothing about Galloway, but I saw that he's been married to two palestinian women. Is he being cynical or does he just feel a close affiliation to the palestinian community the way someone who marries a jewish woman might feel the same towards the jewish community?
Forwyn Member	Sun Mar 03 08:44:53 "Listen!" Private social media that was amplified after she won. You can match every retarded statement of hers with one by someone on the other side of the aisle.
Paramount Member	Sun Mar 03 09:11:59 ”Sunak was elected an MP” But he has not been elected Prime Minister. That has got to be a threat to democracy.
Rugian Member	Sun Mar 03 09:33:11 "You can match every retarded statement of hers with one by someone on the other side of the aisle." You will never convince WTB of that. European news media is overwhelmingly leftwing, and as a result they almost never report on all of the stupid shit that leftist politicians say, or if they do they'll try to gaslight their audience into believing that that stupid shit is actually completely normal ("it's not mutilating children, it's affirming a child's identity"). WTB and Seb have spent a lifetime in a bubble where only right-wing politicians have their stupid moments reported on. You can cite examples of leftists being retarded into you're blue in the face, but you'll never get thrm to move their biases on this.
Paramount Member	Tue Mar 05 01:17:15 UK Conservatives' support lowest in 46 years in new poll LONDON, March 4 (Reuters) - Support for the governing Conservative Party has fallen to the lowest level in more than four decades as a general election draws nearer in an opinion poll published on Monday, as another former minister announced he was quitting parliament. An Ipsos poll put support for the Conservatives, in power for 14 years, at 20% at the end of February, down seven percentage points in a month, with the opposition Labour Party on 47%. It was the lowest support Ipsos had recorded for the Conservatives since at least 1978, when it began regularly tracking support for the main parties. The previous low was 22% in 1994, when John Major was Conservative prime minister, three years before the party suffered its heaviest electoral defeat in almost a century. http://www...-46-years-new-poll-2024-03-04/ If only the extremists could stop protesting and if people could stop voting for Sunak’s opponents then democracy would be secured and the Conservatives could continue to govern in peace.
Seb Member	Tue Mar 05 01:36:00 Paramount: It may surprise you to know that no British PM has ever been elected. Being PM is a function of leading the party with the most MPs. That's all. Hence the principle of cabinet collective responsibility rather than "I serve at the presidents pleasure".
Seb Member	Tue Mar 05 02:59:35 Rugian: "WTB and Seb have spent a lifetime in a bubble where only right-wing politicians have their stupid moments reported on" Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Sorry, sorry.... Hahahahahahahahahahaha. No. Seriously.
Seb Member	Tue Mar 05 03:04:38 This thread started with George fucking Galloway who is left wing as fuck, and it's infamous for dressing up and role playing as a cat on a reality tv show. My formative political years were dominated by reporting on the Monica Lewinsky affair. We just spoke about Jeremy Fucking Corbyn. The fact that in the US the Republicans have been particularly captured by utter lunatics of late is a regrettably objective fact, and it's largely because of folks like you that can't bring yourself to confront and accept the lunacy on your own "side" and address it because it feels too much like betrayal. You prize party loyalty over ensuring your party reps are competent and serious individuals in the pursuit of ideological goals even as said representatives ditch the ideology.
Seb Member	Tue Mar 05 03:05:17 Rugian, it is you that is a hypocritical hack, not me.
Seb Member	Tue Mar 05 03:06:42 Ed Miliband lost a general election in part because the media ruthlessly and relentlessly focused on his clumsy eating of a bacon sandwich.
Seb Member	Tue Mar 05 03:11:07 I can do this all fucking day pointing out mainstream media focus on left wing politicians foibles. The fact that no-one are quite as lurid as the string of lunatics that descend from Sarah Palin to their nadir in Trump says nothing about the media generally, but the depressing inability of the right wing media to accurately hold to account right wing leaders in the US lest it demoralise their right wing voting audience. This is why you've lost the fucking plot and think the obviously deranged Trump is on any way a credible figure. Biden gets *way* more criticism from the left than Trump does from the right. Yet here you are, in your bubble, genuinely convinced somehow that theres a long running bias against the right. Just a total retreat from sanity.
murder Member	Tue Mar 05 08:37:47 Every single day Trump says some batshit crazy thing. Every single day the media "Joe Biden is confused" "voters worried about his age". Every single day. Joe Biden is boring and doesn't drive clicks and views. Trump says shit like "migrants speak languages from Mars" and compares them to Hannibal Lecter. Every single day the media "Joe Biden is confused" "voters worried about his age". All major news media are for profit corporations, and they all want to batshit crazy guy that drive the clicks and the views. There is no bigger farce in the US than the claim that voraciously capitalist media organizations are "left wing".
Forwyn Member	Tue Mar 05 19:56:25 "You prize party loyalty over ensuring your party reps are competent and serious individuals in the pursuit of ideological goals even as said representatives ditch the ideology." Lol. #bluenomatterwho is not a conservative mantra. RINO is. Republicans lose and get constantly primaried precisely because the right-wing camp includes far more true independents that will vote third party as protest. Your statement is opposite of the truth; people don't care that Kevin McCarthy slaps an R by his name when he passes a trillion dollar omnibus spending bill every six months.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Mar 05 21:51:00 http://x.com/Mick_O_Keeffe/status/1765045759139885157?s=20 What the fuck have you done seb?
Seb Member	Wed Mar 06 12:31:31 Forwyn: Bluenomatter who is a response to the fact the republicans are lining up to nominate trump, have shamelessly stuffed the courts with political apparatchiks and gerrymandered political boundaries to enable minority rule etc. while the left have been divided precisely because vast chunks of left leaning voters would rather stay at home than vote for what they see as an unsatisfactory candidate and have been doing that for the bulk of the last two decades.
Seb Member	Wed Mar 06 12:32:39 Honestly, Donald Trump is the leading republican candidate. Failure to address how wildly terrible it is to advocate him as a president simply disqualifies you from meaningfully contributing to this conversation.
Seb Member	Wed Mar 06 12:37:11 Sam: The Irish really hate Americans plastic paddies that think they are Irish (often, hilariously, their ancestry Scotch Irish - I.e. British originating colonists of Ulster doing the oppression of Catholics - and unaware of the connotations). Irish have been super clear that being Irish is a matter of citizenship. They are also very big on refugees on account of the fact that many of their relatives and ancestors were, er, refugees. They aren't going to take nicely to racist American cosplayers coming to Ireland and complaining it isn't Disneyland with everyone dressed up as leprechauns.
Forwyn Member	Wed Mar 06 14:43:14 "republicans are lining up to nominate trump" Democrats are lining up to nominate Biden LOL "have shamelessly stuffed the courts with political apparatchiks" rofl. Classic surface-level Euro crying about some lucky SCOTUS appointments. Meanwhile, the left has been cramming every nook and cranny of local, state, and federal courts for almost a decade, to the point where "Soros DA" has become a meme. http://www...criminal-justice-reform-227519 "gerrymandered political boundaries to enable minority rule etc." Easy to make the claim when leftwing courts declare that if the state doesn't intentionally partition black-only districts, it is unlawful. "voters would rather stay at home than vote for what they see as an unsatisfactory candidate" Happens on both sides "Honestly, Donald Trump is the leading republican candidate. Failure to address how wildly terrible it is to advocate him as a president simply disqualifies you from meaningfully contributing to this conversation." Answer: Biden and Clinton lol
Seb Member	Wed Mar 06 16:20:15 Forwyn: At worst, Biden is just too old. Trump is completely deranged and a criminal. In every single way he is not just a bad pick for president, but the president America's worst enemies would pick. This is what I mean about your partisanship here. "rofl. Classic surface-level Euro crying about some lucky SCOTUS appointments." Oh man, look, when I see Argentina electing a lunatic, or crazy shit going down in African banana republics, do you think I'm crying? Hell no, these are not my problems. They are your problems. I just shake my head and despair slightly for you. The lesson for Europeans is America is fucked up, can never be trusted to be the country it was, and European countries must disengage from the US economically, politically and militarily, forge its own relationship with China and other countries - and to the extent the US remains both erratic, unstable country and powerful, seek to contain the impact it's instability will have on the bits of the world we care about.
Seb Member	Wed Mar 06 16:20:51 "Answer: Biden and Clinton" On every measure conceivable objectively better candidates.
Seb Member	Wed Mar 06 16:21:45 Trump will literally sell the country to the highest foreign bidder and call it a good deal.
Forwyn Member	Wed Mar 06 19:51:29 There won't be anything to sell, China will own it all by the time Biden leaves.
Forwyn Member	Wed Mar 06 20:01:23 "On every measure conceivable objectively better candidates." "This is what I mean about your partisanship here." "when I see Argentina electing a lunatic" Yeah, you're probably not the person to lecture on objectivity, if you're comparing Trump to Milei lmao
Paramount Member	Thu Mar 07 01:17:43 Seb ” Trump is completely deranged and a criminal. In every single way he is not just a bad pick for president, but the president America's worst enemies would pick.” Putin has said that he prefers Genocide Joe over Trump: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68302071 Netanyahu prefers Trump. Are you saying that it is Israel who is America’s worst enemy?
Seb Member	Thu Mar 07 03:04:51 Forwyn: Trump is in many ways much worse than Milei. But Milei's policies will set Argentina back a long way. I raise him because I had this similar conversation "oh no, you must be coping! You must be crying liberal tears". The American right inability to understand that most non-Americans are observers rather than participants in your culture war. One can comment on the chimps flinging shit at eachother without being invested in the outcome.
Seb Member	Thu Mar 07 03:07:18 Paramount: Yes. I too certainly believe the ex KGB guy who specialised in subversion missions and that has said he sees himself in conflict with the US led world order is probably just calling it like he sees it and worth listening to.
Seb Member	Thu Mar 07 03:08:02 "Don't throw me into the Briar patch brer fox!"
williamthebastard Member	Thu Mar 07 07:21:07 "Putin has said that he prefers Genocide Joe over Trump" For gods sake, how can you believe Putin would prefer a NATO preserver to a NATO destroyer?
williamthebastard Member	Thu Mar 07 07:24:51 Any child can work out that a US president who openly wants to and would leave NATO in ruins is Putins ultimate dream. Even if Trump and Putin hated each other and utterly opposed each other on everything else, just Trumps NATO position alone would be worth any other downside for Putin
Paramount Member	Thu Mar 07 07:41:52 Because Genocide Joe is more predictable and easier to outmanoeuvre. Emperor Trump is unpredictable, stronger, faster and smarter.
williamthebastard Member	Thu Mar 07 07:44:56 oh shut it, you moron. You know Nato is Putins greatest hatred and obstacle. How many times have you yourself said that Nato caused the Ukraine war? That Nato is the greatest existential threat to Russia? Etc etc etc?
williamthebastard Member	Thu Mar 07 08:05:32 There is nothing - nothing - that would increase Putins power more than the end of nato, barring china, india and the USA all committing mutually assured destruction
Paramount Member	Thu Mar 07 08:17:07 Well, there are some who says something along the lines that Russia wants there to be a Nato – because Nato(USA) would constraint western europe and in particular Germany, who, if unchecked, could become too strong and start to attack its neighbors and Russia again. Putin just doesn't want Nato at their doorstep. Russia wants a buffert zone. A buffert zone is benefitial for everyone.
murder Member	Thu Mar 07 08:19:38 I'd just like to point out to Paramount ... you're in NATO now. You better learn to love Joe Biden, because if Trump wins you're going to find yourself in a war with Russia with no help coming from the US. In fact the US may end up helping Russia take half of Europe.
Paramount Member	Thu Mar 07 09:34:10 Genocide Joe and the criminal Democratic Party will be the ones who will be getting us into a direct war with Russia. We are not far away from it as it is. But sure, blame it on Trump :o)
williamthebastard Member	Thu Mar 07 09:40:27 Trump would certainly want to cash in on that; otoh, Trump joining up with Putin in invading other european countries will also cause the US to fall apart, US generals plotting to overthrow Trump and a whole, globally disastrous domino-effect
williamthebastard Member	Thu Mar 07 09:53:12 Russia obviously estimates a myriad of potential domino-effects like this. There is no wetter dream for Putin than for Trump to wreck NATO. It is enough to mention Trump and NATO in the same sentence to make Putin have an explosive squirting orgasm and collapse in a quivering heap of ecstasy.
murder Member	Thu Mar 07 10:52:38 "Trump would certainly want to cash in on that; otoh, Trump joining up with Putin in invading other european countries will also cause the US to fall apart, US generals plotting to overthrow Trump and a whole, globally disastrous domino-effect" Trump literally tried to overthrow the government and US generals didn't do shit. No one did. People just follow orders or resign.
williamthebastard Member	Thu Mar 07 11:18:51 We're talking Trump sending US troops to attack european former allies. There are so many endless variables. The 5,000,000 million american permanent and 7,000,000 temporary residents suddenly trapped in countries that Trump and Putin are attacking etc etc etc
williamthebastard Member	Thu Mar 07 11:22:34 the hundreds of US nukes stationed in European countries that immediately get pointed at the US, Italy, Germany and a bunch of other countries becoming nuclear armed powers overnight and on and on and on
williamthebastard Member	Thu Mar 07 11:30:33 The 5,000,000 million american permanent residents, or 3.5m or 4.2m, depending on your source. Apparently they dont really know, but millions of trapped americans in a suddenly hostile Europe.
williamthebastard Member	Thu Mar 07 11:36:47 As far back as the 60s, Sweden had secret plans to quickly produce nuclear missiles in the event of a Russian attack, quick enough to nuke Russias first invasion forces before they even reached Sweden, so Im pretty sure modern countries could become nuclear powers a lot quicker than that, especially since they already control hundreds of US nukes
williamthebastard Member	Thu Mar 07 11:51:43 I would suspect that the effects of all that chaos and war on the climate would mean its game over anyway
Sam Adams Member	Fri Mar 08 10:53:59 http://x.com/ScooterCasterNY/status/1766113531433230615?s=20 They want to destroy your history seb.
LazyCommunist Member	Sat Mar 23 08:51:19 Galloway rulz! http://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1771250046605856856 George Galloway MP@georgegalloway If the #Biden regime is found to be involved in the terrorist mass murder underway in Moscow a virtual state of war between the super-powers will exist #Russia #USA #Moscow
Sam Adams Member	Sat Mar 23 11:07:04 Lol sebs leader.
Seb Member	Sat Mar 23 15:18:45 Sam: Oh no, he's been destroyed from history! Bal... I'm forgetting his name! It's like that scene from back to the future....
Seb Member	Sat Mar 23 15:19:17 Oh my god, with Balfour and his place in history destroyed, the maps are changing! The maps!
Sam Adams Member	Tue Mar 26 08:40:19 http://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-793699 The UK is a muslim country that hates jews.
Seb Member	Wed Mar 27 04:51:26 They are part of the tour being organised by the IDF to "raise awareness" of the 7th October attacks. I.e. IDF propogandists. They are complaining because they are interviewed by border guards when arriving for what sounds like work on a tourist visa. Interviews under these circumstances are perfectly normal, and nothing on the video shows any support for their claims that they are singled out. Let's see what the investigation says, if their claims are true, the individuals will be sacked and prosecuted (no immunity like in corrupt US). More likely, this is IDF propogandists outraged they are required to undergo normal border processing by people who look Muslim, who they were used to being able to shoot with impunity. Much like how your forefathers came to the UK and tried to instigate segregation during ww2. They too felt being in a pub with black British people was uncomfortable.
LazyCommunist Member	Wed Mar 27 05:49:55 Galloway rulz! At 1:22 "And it's very interesting to which experts the Russian government paper turns to first for comment: George Galloway" http://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1772889035108655354
Sam Adams Member	Wed Mar 27 09:21:30 "Much like how your forefathers came to the UK and tried to instigate segregation during ww2. They too felt being in a pub with black British people was uncomfortable." Holy shit. You make up more woke BS than cnn.
Seb Member	Wed Mar 27 13:16:38 http://www...treat-their-african-americans/ http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bamber_Bridge One of your racist forefathers got shot by an English farmer Sam.
Seb Member	Wed Mar 27 13:17:08 Happened in new Zealand and Australia too.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Mar 27 15:22:21 1) there were almost no black british people in 1945 2) you were racist to them(appropriately so i might add) 3) rofl nice fucking source. If you had maintained your appropriate levels of racism longer, your country would suck less and london wouldnt be muslim.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Mar 27 15:25:10 "One of your racist forefathers got shot by an English farmer Sam." So what you are saying is that you are ungrateful and we should not rescue you from russia?
Seb Member	Wed Mar 27 17:31:36 1) lol. Small thing called the British Empire. 2) yes, but not remotely in the same way. Hence when your racist grandfather demanded segregated pubs, they all decided to be for Blacks. 3) the fact you need a source for this hugely well known and well documented eve event is hilarious. " So what you are saying is that you are ungrateful and we should not rescue you from russia?" No I'm saying you should come here, be racist, and get shot by a farmer.
jergul large member	Wed Mar 27 20:35:07 Seb Russia will of course track down and crack down on fundy terrorism domestically, but yah, Ukraine will also be held responsible. Perhaps even factually. But it does not matter. You should know given Iraq in 2003. Deterring Ukraine from mounting copycat attacks is pretty important after all.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Mar 27 21:36:19 "this hugely well known and well documented eve event" Lmao. Even in the unlikely event any of this true, what happened to about 4 people against the background of ww2 is utterly meaningless. battles with 1k dead are so minor they are forgotten to history already. Against that great tide of slaughter your woke make believe is exactly nothing.
Seb Member	Thu Mar 28 02:39:57 Jergul: Bit of a non sequitur there. Also great to see you have decided that it's a realistic possibility that Ukraine worked with ISIS. You were saying something about conspiracy theories. Russia is holding Ukraine responsible because it's ability to respond appropriately (by their standards) to ISIS is severely constrained. Sam: "If" - lol. I'm sorry your racist grandad got shot by a farmer who offered black men for company in his local, but you need to come to terms with it.
jergul large member	Thu Mar 28 04:16:01 Seb Rofl@seb as the thread title says. Highly on topic. Enemy of enemy. Ukraine would use Isis in a Manhattan minute if it could. Manufacturing an Isis presence to use is easy. You seem to take it as fact yet again what US and UK intelligence are telling you. Will you never learn? Blaming random countries is par for the course when dealing with mass casualty events from terrorism. Or any terrorism really. But in this case, rational policy would be to blame Ukraine to deter copycat attacks. Why? Because Ukraine definitely has to be deterred from financing, planning and initiating terror attacks in Russia using fundamentalist stooges. Ukraine is fighting that kind of war you see. So yes, Russia also has to round up fundamentalist stooges domestically. To take that piece of equipment out of the Ukrainian toolbox.
Seb Member	Thu Mar 28 04:31:20 Jergul: "Ukraine would use Isis in a Manhattan minute if it could" Doubt it. They've refrained from committing atrocities and backing Isis would make it impossible for the West to support them. Random attacks on shopping malls don't help them. "You seem to take it as fact yet again what US and UK intelligence are telling you. Will you never learn?" What exactly do you think I'm taking for granted that they have said other than "we didn't do this". It sounds to me like you are once again taking Russian talking points. The idea that blaming Ukraine would deter hypothetical attacks of a type they don't appear to be at all interested in, have no history of committing aside from being based on a delusional world view, also makes no sense internally. How does blaming Ukraine deter them from doing it if they are so inclined to do so? Has Russia been holding back? Nope. Blaming Ukraine is pure management of the domestic situation. If we can't actually give a SMO curb stomp to this group like we did after the Moscow bombings and theatre siege because we are all tied up in Ukraine, blame Ukraine instead so justice can be seen to be done. "Russia also has to round up fundamentalist stooges domestically." They need to do that because the fundamentalist stooges are going to keep doing attacks anyway. If it helps you think you are preventing imaginary Ukrainian attacks too, that just tells us more about the disconnect in Russian decision making from reality.
Seb Member	Thu Mar 28 04:31:43 Meanwhile Ukraine will keep flying drones into oil refinery fractionating columns.
jergul large member	Thu Mar 28 05:08:09 Seb Of course Ukraine will keep on doing that. Non-frontline roles are at a premium. Literally in many cases. May as well do "something" when serving Ukraine not at the frontline. Dangerous that frontline. Also unpleasant. Cozy internet outreaches to disgruntled fundamentalists fall into the same pattern. Link them up with an armscatch. Give them 5k dollars in local currency. Check out where there is going to be a concert. Use paint to make some propaganda material. A nice job if you can get it. Way better than the frontline. People pay good money for slots like that. Blaming Ukraine has nothing to do with the domestic situation. Which has improved as it always does after mass casualty terrorist events. Deterring Ukraine from copycating is absolutely essential. Or Ukraine will copycat. Perhaps even copycat itself. Who knows? You dont. That is for sure.
jergul large member	Thu Mar 28 05:10:47 You should also be very careful about "disconneted from reality". Very close to projection. You still seem to think Ukraine's peaceplan is a realistic outcome.
Seb Member	Thu Mar 28 05:28:19 Jergul: Kewl story bro.
jergul large member	Thu Mar 28 05:57:30 Seb I know. Thanks, bro.
jergul large member	Thu Mar 28 07:22:34 Its one of the things that gets me. People know Ukraine has a corruption problem, yet focus on peanuts. Money being mislaid. As if there is a lack of money to be sent Ukraine. The big, huge, gigantic problem is manpower being mislaid. To the point where Ukraine cannot round up 25k frontline troops to replenish combat losses. From and estimated 500k doing *stuff* in the rear (An additional 300k are in the frontline areas, so are legit in that sense). That is correct. 25k. That is what Ukraine is unable to round up to replenish its combat formations. All these special units doing special things over the internet in one way or another. Idolizing Ukrainian ingenuity feeds the beast. Sure, throw up another long range drone unit. Then man it with the best people possible willing to pay to be assigned there. There are twitter wars to be won after all. So what if the center cannot hold. Maybe a tighter mobilization bill will pass one day. Way easier to get manpower that way than to transfer soldiers who paid good money for their rear slots. Military service will be critical in post conflict Ukraine. Better in so many ways to serve safely now if you can afford it. So that your post war pedigree is in order and to remove luck from the equation of avoiding mobilization altogether. War really is a racket. Some places more than others.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Mar 28 21:33:35 "Kewl story bro." Says the guy that just posted that woke made up sob piece.
Seb Member	Fri Mar 29 01:45:18 Sam: Not made up at all. Well documented event I've known about for 30 odd years. It's hilarious you think it's made up. Your brain literally cannot compute the idea that white folk would rather have a beer with a black man than your racist grandad, and would shoot at him rather than let him try and bully them into foreign American customs.
jergul large member	Fri Mar 29 02:52:20 A well documented anectdote that has improbable importance because it is a counterpoint to deeply ingrained british intolerance.
jergul large member	Fri Mar 29 02:55:41 Its like saying Russia can impossibly be rasist because its Shakespeare (Pushkin) is one fourth black. The grandson of a black imperial russian general. Russians are very racist. Against many races.
Seb Member	Fri Mar 29 04:48:10 Jergul: There are records jergul. The death of an couple of servicemen don't go unreported, plus the police and military investigations. But sure, keep going with your denial of historical facts because in your mind it is impossible that there might be Brits that aren't so prejudiced against black people they like people like Sam and will let them boss them around. "Its like saying Russia can impossibly be rasist because its Shakespeare (Pushkin) is one fourth black" No it's not. Nothing like that at all. Rather what you are doing is like pointing at Russian racism towards Ukrainians and saying it is impossible to believe any Russians might side with Ukraine.
jergul large member	Fri Mar 29 05:00:11 Seb You keep it going with your functional illiteracy. Sure, one isolated, anectodal case. Highlighted as a fully balancing jutapose to centuries of colonialism and its compounding structural and casual racism. That was my clear point. I raise you one white man's burden :D. Russians are slightly condecending, but are not racist against Ukrainians. For racism there, see Ukraine's nationbuilding project that axiomically relies heavily on fostering anti-russian policies and sentiment. Which is fine, well except for the huge Russian minority in the country. Doing that then leads to civil wars and military interventions followed by invasions.
jergul large member	Fri Mar 29 05:10:15 You would have to be oblivious not to know lots of Russians side with Ukraine. The main combat language of the Ukrainian armed forces is Russian as many of its frontline soldiers know Ukrainian. The head of the army barely speaks it at all and is from Vladimir, Russia.
	show deleted posts