Utopia Talk / Politics / Your papers please

patom Member	Wed Sep 04 04:06:10 It seems that the Republicans want proof of citizenship before you are allowed to vote. Will this be the first step toward establishing the Nuremberg Laws of Nazi Germany? http://www.facinghistory.org/resource-library/nuremberg-laws
murder Member	Wed Sep 04 08:00:00 "It seems that the Republicans want proof of citizenship before you are allowed to vote." Plenty on the right already say that being born in the US doesn't make you a citizen so ...
Rugian Member	Wed Sep 04 08:09:42 Oh my god the horror, you have to show that you're qualified to vote in order to vote. Patom, do you realize how insane you sound sometimes? You exist in an ideological bubble so impenetrable that habitual Fox News viewers are jealous of it
Rugian Member	Wed Sep 04 08:13:40 "State of Maine - Bureau of Motor Vehicles OBTAINING A DRIVERS LICENSE To obtain your driver's license, you must: -Provide proof that you are a Maine resident -Provide proof that you are a U.S. citizen or are in the country lawfully (legal presence) -Provide two forms of proof of identity; one must indicate your date of birth and the other must bear your written signature." http://www.maine.gov/sos/bmv/licenses/getlicense.html OH MY GOD, ID IS REQUIRED TO GET A LICENSE? ITS LIKE NAZI GERMANY, STALINIST RUSSIA AND MAOIST CHINA ALL WRAPPED UP INTO ONE! THE HORROR, THE HORROR WILLARD
Rugian Member	Wed Sep 04 08:19:51 "How To Get Your Maine Concealed Carry Permit MAIL your completed application and the following documentation to the state police or your local police station: An application for a concealed carry permit Two Authority to Release Information forms A valid copy of a birth certificate or INS document One 2-by-2-inch color passport photograph A copy of a certificate that has been issued within the past five years that shows proof of knowledge of handgun safety Any necessary copies of concealed carry weapons permits issued by other states or municipalities within Maine A valid copy of the DD-214 form for members of the U.S. armed forces The appropriate fees" http://www...-concealed-carry-permit/maine/ HOLY SHIT, ID IS REQUIRED TO EXERCISE 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHTS? THIS IS WORSE THAN THE HOLOCAUST AND HOLODOMOR COMBINED!!!!!!
Rugian Member	Wed Sep 04 08:24:16 "Student Financial Aid - Basic Eligibility Criteria Our basic eligibility requirements are that you must: demonstrate financial need for need-based federal student aid programs; be a U.S. citizen or an eligible noncitizen; have a valid Social Security number (with the exception of students from the Republic of the Marshall Islands, Federated States of Micronesia, or the Republic of Palau); be enrolled or accepted for enrollment as a regular student in an eligible degree or certificate program; maintain satisfactory academic progress in college or career school; provide consent and approval to have your federal tax information transferred directly into your 2024–25 Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA®) form, if you’re applying for aid for July 1, 2024, to June 30, 2025; sign the certification statement on the FAFSA form stating that you’re not in default on a federal student loan, you do not owe money on a federal student grant, and you’ll only use federal student aid for educational purposes; and show you’re qualified to obtain a college or career school education." http://stu...d-aid/eligibility/requirements WTF, YOU HAVE TO SHOW ID JUST TO TAKE OUT A STUDENT LOAN? HITLER IS WEEPING IN HIS GRAVE AT HOW AUTHORITARIAN AMERICA HAS BECOME
patom Member	Wed Sep 04 10:08:05 Rugian, check your sources. In Maine you don't need a permit to carry concealed. Any Maine resident over 21 (who is not otherwise prohibited from owning or being in possession of a firearm), is authorized to carry a concealed handgun without a permit. This also applies to individuals (18-20 y/o) who are actively serving or have been honorably discharged from the U.S. Military/Armed Forces. Maine is one of if not the easiest state to vote in. You can register to vote at the polls on election day. All you need is valid ID and proof of residence in that district. There to my knowledge, in spite of concerted efforts by Republicans to prove otherwise, there has been no illegals voting in this state. There is however a push to require voter ID cards on top of already being registered to vote and having done the required, in order to register. Just how many pieces of Identity do you require? Is there ever going to be enough? Or is this the beginning of what Nazi Germany started with the Nuremberg Laws. Will you be one of the Orange Shirts stopping people at random on the street demanding their ID papers?? At present I carry a photo drivers license, a photo passport card, SS card medicare card. But that isn't satisfactory enough? You want to have another form of ID identifying me as a US citizen. Will that be enough? Or will you push for another series of investigations searching for illegal voters??
Byron Member	Wed Sep 04 10:28:39 Rugian, how do you prove you're a US citizen? What do you provide to show that you are indeed a US citizen?
patom Member	Wed Sep 04 11:30:21 Byron, Rugian will just start talking and everyone will know he's a Masshole.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Sep 04 11:33:04 I have to have an id to: Buy beer Buy ammo Go to work Go to a movie Go to canada and back Fly Drive Open a bank account but fucking utterly mindless leftists say its racist to require one to vote?
Byron Member	Wed Sep 04 11:55:11 How sad that sam and rugian don't know the history of disenfranchised voters. While they cling onto the myth that mass fraudulent voting is the truth.
Forwyn Member	Wed Sep 04 13:28:37 Dude. I got sent a letter in the mail last night that since I moved, I need to submit a new registration to verify my home address so I don't get purged. MUHHHHHHHH DISENFRANCHISEMENT, MUHHHHHHH NAHTSEE GERMANY
patom Member	Wed Sep 04 15:19:31 Sam how many ways do you need to identify yourself to vote? Will the Republicans ever be satisfied? This is a blatant effort to purge the votes of the poor who many not have the means to get voter ID. Who is going to pay for these ID's that will not satisfy the Right as enough. Buy beer? Dude I'm fucking 80 the only time I was required to show ID was at a drug store that had recently been busted for selling to minors. I bought ammo a few months ago. Nobody asked me for ID. Go to work? Never was asked after the job application and hiring. They alwayse were happy to see me. What fucking world do you live in? I've been going to movies for a long time NEVER once was I required to show ID. Canada and the US share a border. That is expected. Now if your right wing right to lifers have their way. All females will be required to submit to pregnancy tests to leave their State. Drive I have photo Id drivers license. Which I showed when I 'REGISTERED' to VOTE. Fly, well no shit. Did you ever hear of 9/11. Did you ever hear of hijackings? So lets pass a law requiring a special card that verifies your citizenship to stop rampant voting by illegal aliens. Oh wait they haven't come up with any evidence that this is happening. Oh hell it could. They are all just out of the nut houses and jails and are too stupid to not realize that going to the authorities to register to vote is not a way to stay below the radar.
Forwyn Member	Wed Sep 04 15:32:44 I mail in my registration form in a provided postage-paid envelope and they mail me a card. This is in a deep-red muhhhh Handmaid's Tale state. lulz at idiotic rant
patom Member	Wed Sep 04 15:39:01 So who checked your ID? Did the Post Office insure that your registration was registered? Hell you must be an illegal!!!
Forwyn Member	Wed Sep 04 15:48:01 Perhaps you're too old to remember needing primary identification (birth certificate, social security) to obtain secondary identification (ID, driver's license) that makes subsequent processes easier.
Byron Member	Wed Sep 04 17:07:41 "Dude. I got sent a letter in the mail last night that since I moved, I need to submit a new registration to verify my home address so I don't get purged." I am sure you sent a copy of your birth certificate? I am sure that is a request right as part of your verification?
patom Member	Wed Sep 04 18:43:51 Maybe they'll want a copy of my last colonoscopy too.
Rugian Member	Wed Sep 04 19:34:46 Is you colonoscopy of any relevance to whether you are a member of the body politic, the citizenry with a suitable stake in the functioning of our representative democracy to warrant the right to vote?
Forwyn Member	Wed Sep 04 20:59:27 "I am sure you sent a copy of your birth certificate?" To get a DL. As I have that, I can provide that number on my new form. For poors, they can just provide the last 4 of their SSN.
Byron Member	Thu Sep 05 04:19:37 I see. So, you're expressing to me that you haven't proved your citizenship? Because for you to update your information for voting, as you explained, none of that was requested so how do they truly know you are still a citizen. DL's, ssn's, military ID'S, not considered proof. In fact, if the measures taken to have to prove your citizenship are implemented, this does cause issues generally for parts of the population. 1) have to consider the notification and spreading the news and update. You will have some who have voted for years, with no issue whatsoever, suddenly being informed on polling days that you need to provide proof of citizenship. Your voting card, dl, and other forms of ID aren't accepted proof. By then it's too late because you have to get your BC, passport, 550s, 560s, 570s, or consular report of FS forms. 2)If don't have that, then you have to request it. Red tape, beaucracy takes hold. Wait weeks for that possibly, have to pay a fee for it. Even if you get your BC, may not be acceptd, because they may request a long form version of it, which is another level of requirements and prolongs. Also, approximately 21.3 million Americans do not readily have proof of citizenship for availability. Which goes back to an earlier point, if they are unaware of these requirements because they don't watch the news, didn't receive a notification and the like....and they attempt to vote with the basic information that they had for years (which may not be accepted now) you just prevented them from voting. And before you callously say something along the lines that should pay attention to these changes.... In all states, REAL ID was implemented when President Dubya was in office and given a deadline. The deadlines have been postponed numerous times due to oppositions from various states, state administrative burdens, etc. The deadline has been postponed so many times it is now to may 2025, and the likliness of outcomes will be another delay. For a few states, and one particular almost half of the state population was unaware of real id and the hard deadline the state set had to make it null and void and move it again. Because the lapse of notification, the hang in the balance of when to enforce or hold accountable, and other factors. And you want to state simply that measures pushing these types of initiatives and passing legislation isn't going to affect a significant portion of the US population when it comes to voting? Especially when, given your scenario, you haven't proved your citizenship, because you simply mailed in the bare minimum of updates for your home address? A far cry different than latter situations.
patom Member	Thu Sep 05 05:29:32 If I'm not mistaken I was required to show my birth certificate when I applied for my passport card. I'm sure that wouldn't satisfy the Republicans.
Forwyn Member	Thu Sep 05 07:17:15 Nice rants. What states are requiring copys of BCs be sent in for general re-certification? "you haven't proved your citizenship" Except I did. No one is asking for primary ID at every juncture with the state. Only for receipt of secondary ID. Naturally, states like CA love issuing secondary ID to known non-citizens, so it can create issues in those situations.
Byron Member	Thu Sep 05 08:57:01 "Nice rants." Nice concession.
jergul large member	Thu Sep 05 09:00:29 The only real question is what measure has the State taken to ensure tightening regulations do not disproportionately target certain demographics. We would not want to conclude that regulation change are attempts at voters suppression aimed at forming outcomes in US politics.
Forwyn Member	Thu Sep 05 09:21:29 "Nice concession." A rant against a strawman is meaningless. No one of note is asking for birth certificates.
Byron Member	Thu Sep 05 09:29:28 It isn't a rant. Just because you lack the capabilities to address any points by anyone doesn't mean it is a 'rant'. This was commentary and perspectives provided based upon the initiatives that is being pushed by the GOP. If you actually paid attention to anything that was written, I repeatedly said "if" or "measures being pushed", "legislation written". That is what is being pushed based upon a false narrative by the GOP that there is mass fraudulent voting. In the house, back in July, they pushed this, you still have other areas in various parts of the country pushing this narrative and action to take place. Again, this is why such measures are viewed as disparaging and disenfranchisement. I understand that you can't see things conceptually, and I know you like to use the word "strawman" because you feel that any argument or point that is made where you can't counter or acknowledge the point is your end game.
Forwyn Member	Thu Sep 05 09:58:52 So again, nothing of substance. Insane bills get proposed all the time, both at state-level and federal. People want ID verification. That doesn't mean birth certificate verification. You regurgitate irrelevant bullshit and then call it a point to address. Lol. Fucking retard. I live in a deep-red state and don't have to show a BC. You go, hurrrrrr so you didn't prove citizenship. You prove my point for me. lmfao
Byron Member	Thu Sep 05 10:06:30 "So again, nothing of substance. Insane bills get proposed all the time, both at state-level and federal." So you admit that these bills, if passed, can be detrimental. As I said previous, nice concession. "People want ID verification. That doesn't mean birth certificate verification" It isn't as simple as that as previously stated. And again you miss the entire point. But, I am dealing with an imbecile. "You regurgitate irrelevant bullshit and then call it a point to address. Lol. Fucking retard." You yell 'strawman' when you can't make points. And you lack inferential and deductive reasoning skills. Seems to me you are the "fucking retard." "I live in a deep-red state and don't have to show a BC. You go, hurrrrrr so you didn't prove citizenship. You prove my point for me. lmfao" Never did I say in any course of my posts that you had to provide your BC. This goes back to my recent statement that you have poor inferential and deductive reasoning skills, also poor reading comprehension. You may go.
Byron Member	Thu Sep 05 10:11:53 Just because you are throwing a tantrum because you have a hard time grasping onto the concept that various pieces of legislation or initiatives being proposed or pushed, doesn't mean that it isn't happening or it would have some profound effect upon the populace when it comes to voting. But, to make it simple as possible for your feeble mind, as you continuously demonstrate having one. The GOP push attempts "insane" (your words) legislation that would require proof of citizenship to vote and the steps it would take to do that, would undoubtedly affect millions of people who would attempt to vote in an election if it passes. Based upon a myth that there is mass fraud in elections.
Forwyn Member	Thu Sep 05 10:13:21 Yeah. Bills with no chance of passing could be detrimental, if they pass. They are sitting in supermajority legislatures and aren't moving, but if they did! Disaster! "It isn't as simple as that as previously stated." It is, for the vast majority of productive citizens. "You yell 'strawman' when you can't make points" Crying about nonexistent laws when the process in the deep red dystopian disenfranchisement states is realistically much simpler is a strawman. Sorry not everyone entertains your chicken little bullshit. "Never did I say in any course of my posts that you had to provide your BC." You immediately sought to clarify that I didn't, and then screeched that I therefore had not proven my citizenship. Lol. Retard
Forwyn Member	Thu Sep 05 10:18:39 Dystopian disenfranchisement hellholes: Alabama Photo ID required Alabama requires voters to present photo ID while voting. A voter can obtain a free photo ID from the Alabama Secretary of State, a county registrar's office, or a mobile location, which changes daily. The mobile location schedule can be accessed here.[1][2] Arkansas Photo ID required Arkansas has a photo ID requirement for voting purposes. The identification must include the voter’s name and photograph. It must be issued by "the United States, the State of Arkansas, or an accredited postsecondary educational institution in the State of Arkansas."[4] Florida Photo ID required Voters in Florida are required to present photo and signature identification on Election Day. If a voter's photo ID does not display their signature, they will need to supply a second form of identification that does.[7] Link Georgia Photo ID required Photo identification is required when voting in person or by mail/absentee in Georgia. Valid forms of ID include driver's licenses, state ID cards, tribal ID cards, United States passports, employee ID cards, military ID cards, and voter ID cards issued by county registration offices or the Georgia Department of Driver Services. Voters can obtain a free voter ID card from any county registrar's office or DDS office.[8] Indiana Photo ID required Indiana law requires voters to present an Indiana or U.S. government-issued photo ID before casting a ballot at the polls on election day. The ID must either be current or have expired sometime after the date of the last general election. Certain voters can claim exemption from the law. If a voter does not have an accepted form of ID, he or she can obtain a free Indiana ID card from the Indiana Bureau of Motor Vehicles.[12] Link Iowa Non-photo ID required Iowa requires voters to present identification while voting. Voters who do not have a photo ID can obtain one for free by mail. Voters who do not have an accepted form of photo ID may have another voter vouch for their identity or they can provide a combination of other documents to verify their identity and residence. Link Kansas Photo ID required In order to vote on Election Day in Kansas, a valid form of photo identification is required. A photo ID does not need to have an expiration date, but, if it does have an expiration date, it must not have expired at the time of voting. If the voter is over the age of 65, he or she can use an expired ID. Some voters are exempt from the photo ID requirement. Voters who do not have a photo ID can obtain one for free through the Division of Vehicles, Kansas Department of Revenue. Link Kentucky Photo ID required Voters in Kentucky are required to present identification before voting. Valid identification includes photo and non-photo identification. Election officers can also confirm the identity of a voter by personal acquaintance.[13] Link Louisiana Photo ID required A Louisiana voter must present one of the following forms of identification at the polls: a driver's license, a Louisiana special ID, or another generally recognized photo ID that contains the voter's name and signature. If a photo ID is not presented, the voter must sign an affidavit. Voters who sign affidavits may be challenged. Registered voters can bring their voter information card to the Office of Motor Vehicles to receive a free Louisiana special identification card.[14] Mississippi Photo ID required Mississippi voters are required to present photo identification in order to vote in person. Accepted forms include a driver's license, U.S. passport, or photo ID issued by a branch or department of the state. Voters can obtain a Mississippi Voter Identification Card for free at any circuit clerk’s office in the state.[20] Link Missouri Photo ID required Missouri requires voters to present photo identification (ID) while voting. Accepted forms of identification include a current Missouri driver's license or non-driver's license, a current military ID, a current U.S. passport, and "another photo ID issued by the United States or the state of Missouri." South Carolina Photo ID required All voters are required to present photo identification at the polls in South Carolina. Acceptable forms of ID include a valid SC driver's license or ID card, a photo voter registration card, a U.S. passport, or a U.S. military or veterans ID. Voters can get a free photo ID from their county voter registration office by providing their name, date of birth and the last four digits of their Social Security number. Tennessee Photo ID required In Tennessee, voters must present government-issued photo identification at the polls. Some voters are exempt from ID requirements. Voters can obtain a free photo ID from the Tennessee Department of Safety and Homeland Security at any participating driver service center. In order to receive an ID, a voter must bring proof of citizenship (such as a birth certificate) and two proofs of Tennessee residency.[38] Link Texas Photo ID required Texas requires voters to present a form of photo identification at the polls. If a voter does not possess the required form of identification, poll workers must ask the voter whether he or she "cannot obtain an acceptable form of photo ID." If the voter answers "yes" to this question, he or she can present a non-photo form of identification and complete a Reasonable Impediment Declaration. Upon doing so, the voter may cast a regular ballot. Some voters are exempt from the ID requirement. Voters who do not have a photo ID can obtain a Texas Election Identification Certificate (EIC) at any Texas driver’s license office. http://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state
Forwyn Member	Thu Sep 05 10:19:13 Muhhh prosposals! Muh birth certificates! MUHHHHHHH LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALLLLLLLLLS
Byron Member	Thu Sep 05 10:20:18 "eah. Bills with no chance of passing could be detrimental, if they pass. They are sitting in supermajority legislatures and aren't moving, but if they did! Disaster!" Always a chance. "It is, for the vast majority of productive citizens." Define productive. And, still would affect enough people who are citizens and have voted normally without issues in the past, would get them wrapped up in an unnecessary situation, thus if was implemented would have caused them to not be able to vote based upon aforementioned issues. "Crying about nonexistent laws when the process in the deep red dystopian disenfranchisement states is realistically much simpler is a strawman. Sorry not everyone entertains your chicken little bullshit." Non-existence doesn't equal it can happen or it's being pushed already. That is the point, these things are being attempted to become reality. Hence why measures haven't passed. And when on the radar, the pushback is because of the points that is being made. But, you seem to have issues making that connection. Do you have a full deck? That hamster still being fed to keep the wheel going right? "You immediately sought to clarify that I didn't, and then screeched that I therefore had not proven my citizenship." That's because you have demonstrated nicely your lack of inferential and deductive reasoning skills ignore the hypothetical that if laws were in place, you would have to provide that. Then I went on and explained that some items does not qualify proof of citizenship, just to provide examples. LOL. "Retard"
Byron Member	Thu Sep 05 10:20:57 "Muhhh prosposals! Muh birth certificates! MUHHHHHHH LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALLLLLLLLLS" What a low iq you have.
Byron Member	Thu Sep 05 10:26:19 Also, an ID being required at voting polls isn't the particular issue being addressed. It's the addition that if one did provide that and the parameters changed to where not only your ID isn't sufficient enough, but you have to have proof of your citizenship, this is where the problem would lie. Again, DL's, SSN's, Military ID's, are not considered proof of citizenship. Sad you are.
Forwyn Member	Thu Sep 05 10:29:04 If, if, if. Muhhhhh proposals!
Byron Member	Thu Sep 05 11:00:32 I understand. Ignore issues and they will go away.
jergul large member	Thu Sep 05 11:18:16 "I understand. Ignore issues and they will go away." He is not wrong.
patom Member	Thu Sep 05 11:51:47 Proposal? Sure let Johnson put it out there by itself without tying it to a CR. If this is so critical for the security of our elections it should be able to stand on it's own.
Rugian Member	Thu Sep 05 12:10:18 Patom It's hilarious that you think Democrats care at all about election security. Their primary goal is and has always been to gain and hold power in DC. If that means voting against election security bills that would be considered reasonable by any other country on the planet in order to ensure maximum turnout by their (legal or otherwise) voters, then so be it.
Forwyn Member	Thu Sep 05 12:12:46 "issues" non-issues. All of the states traditionally associated with dystopian disenfranchisement strategies are listed in this thread. They are pretty standard ID presentation, with various alternatives and free ID options available. Primary forms of identification are almost always only required at the first step of documentation. Again. No one of note wants you to tote your BC with you everywhere you go. They might want you to show it one time ever, to get the process rolling. This is not a tall ask, even if the number of retards out there incapable of this is large.
Rugian Member	Thu Sep 05 12:13:37 It's the same reason why Democrats are now supporting the modern equivalent of Nazis. Sure, it may be completely morally bankrupt to side with barbaric Islamic terrorists who massacred over 1,200 Jews in the name of their sick ideology...but hey, Minnesota has Muslim voters, so what else can you do. Democrats are absolute scum.
Randal Graves Member	Thu Sep 05 12:21:26 Should have known the magafucktwats blowhards would tout 'election integrity' by wanting voter suppression. It's not like magatwat laywers went to court numerous times in the past few years to sue, or block mail in ballots (like trump suddenly now encourages) and shit, for the very reason that mail in ballots supposedly can't be relied on because well as foreskin puts it "muh birth certs" fucking magafuckheads. talking about projection with the comment of dems wanting supreme power when its the fucking maga repubs trying to, especially when jan fucking 6th happend, but no, that was just a "tour" fucking trump maga twats.
Rugian Member	Thu Sep 05 12:28:46 "Voter suppression" Only in the sense that requiring a license to drive, hunt, and work is "car suppression," "gun suppression," and "employment suppression." See, you can make any sort of ID law sound bad when you call it oppressive!
Randal Graves Member	Thu Sep 05 12:32:06 stupid megafuckhead thanks it's about ids, what a stupid fucking goosetepping trump maga twat you are
Randal Graves Member	Thu Sep 05 12:33:23 stupid fucking magatwat probably believes there was mass election fraud and was there on jan 6th for the overthrow.
Randal Graves Member	Thu Sep 05 12:37:51 Stupid fuckhead magatwats thinks voter suppression is a myth. http://en....ppression_in_the_United_States
Rugian Member	Thu Sep 05 12:40:58 Thanks for reminding us that voter suppression DID exist...70 years ago. You got anything more recent for us, grandpa?
Randal Graves Member	Thu Sep 05 12:42:48 ^ obviously too stupid to read.
Randal Graves Member	Thu Sep 05 12:44:30 Apparently can't do math either.
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