Utopia Talk / Politics / Maybe that marine that dems tried to rai

obaminated Member	Fri Nov 01 19:35:04 http://www...hokehold-trial-nyc-subway.html Despite what the fair and just prosecutors, who proclaimed the war hero a killer before receiving all the evidence, say, the drug addict who threatened everyone on the subway train was still alive and breathing when police arrived on scene and was still a live for at least another 45 minutes. Also he was immediately given narcan because it was obvious he was a drug user. Almost like using drugs can contribute to dying. But this is still a white marine in new york, he will be found guilty.
obaminated Member	Fri Nov 01 19:41:47 Also murders response "he died because he got choked out, the Marines deserves jail"
jergul large member	Sat Nov 02 04:25:50 hmm, its almost like choking out people qualifies as "stupid games, stupid prizes".
Rugian Member	Sat Nov 02 08:14:30 Jergul siding with a literal menace to society against a war hero who tried to step up for his neighbors and got railroaded by racial politics as a result. Sounds about right. Mentalities like jergul's is why cities eventually become unlivable to anyone who has the option to move elsewhere.
Rugian Member	Sat Nov 02 08:21:06 Jergul is 100% one on of those "if someone breaks in your house you have a duty to retreat, his life is worth more than your property" people.
jergul large member	Sat Nov 02 08:22:52 Thankfully, he will be judged by a jury of his peers. Perhaps they will think a 5 minute long choke hold is fine. But my point remains. Play a stupid game. Win a stupid prize.
Rugian Member	Sat Nov 02 08:23:04 Jergul is literally one of those "drug addicts and gang members have the right to effectively take control of public streets and infrastructure, and any attempts by upstanding citizens to restore order should be treated as acts of vigilantism and subjected to criminal prosecution" types.
Rugian Member	Sat Nov 02 08:24:15 Jergul is absolutely one of those "if you catch your wife in bed with another man, you have to accept it because she's her own person capable of making her own decisions; your options are either to leave or to stay and watch (but only if she lets you)" folks.
jergul large member	Sat Nov 02 08:26:13 Nah, an actual castle doctrine is fine (not the abomination you practice). All bets are off once someone crosses the threshold into a person's residence. That is very, very old common law and common sense at an almost cellular level.
jergul large member	Sat Nov 02 08:30:03 Ruggy You are so wierd. There are social contracts between husband and wives that include keeping other people out of the common bed. I would so drag that guy out of the house by his ear. Now that I have engaged in your infidelity fantasy.
Rugian Member	Sat Nov 02 08:47:48 Jergul And what if in the course of trying to take that guy out, he fights back and in the ensuing altercation is accidentally killed? Should you be on the hook for murder charges as a result? This is the problem with your passive "don't do anything stupid" approach. It leads to people not helping out when someone is clearly in serious trouble, because they don't want to run the risk that they somehow end up in the papers the next day as the world's newest evil villain. Weighing the safety of a train car against the well-being of a crazed mentally ill drug addict, I'm not struggling with what I care about more. I'm not saying that Neely necessarily should have died, but I do support Penny jumping in and doing what he did.
jergul large member	Sat Nov 02 09:03:41 I doubt murder charges. I would end up with 2 years in jail give or take. Perhaps 3 months of that time without the internet, so I would have to take a sabbatical from here. Have a little faith in your jury system then. He will be judged by his peers. The core problem is the excessive part of what he did. A chokehold for 5 minutes kills. We will see what the jury deliberations land on.
jergul large member	Sat Nov 02 09:07:03 Self defence is fine. But that is something that has to be proven to be within what is covered by that legal exception for depriving another human of its liberty or life. There are usually proportionate criteria that need be met. This is what may bar the fellow from successfully claiming self defence.
Forwyn Member	Sat Nov 02 09:29:18 Still alive when cops arrived. No one wanted to render aid because he was so disgusting that people were scared of being infected. Chuck the case.
jergul large member	Sat Nov 02 09:50:24 Forwyn I dont think the degree of medical intervention attempts matter when determining if something is a homicide or not. Just because something could have possibly prevented his death does not change the fact that he died. Pre-existing conditions also seem irrelevant. Would it matter with a heart condition or chronic breathing obstructions contributing to a death by strangulation? Can you imagine me getting off a prison sentence because my wife did not attempt first aid before her paramour passed (from Ruggy's example)?
Forwyn Member	Sat Nov 02 10:43:24 It's not a gunshot wound. It's simple asphyxiation/exertion exacerbated by drug use. Intervention could almost certainly have kept him alive, after the hold was released
jergul large member	Sat Nov 02 11:31:12 Still, are you arguing that pre-existing conditions that may have contributed to a death can void a homicide, or that not providing medical attention can do so? A mugger stabs someone who suffers a heart attack and dies while a police officer neglects to perform first aid. Is that merely aggravated assault in your mind?
obaminated Member	Sat Nov 02 11:44:51 Jergul, what was the victim doing prior to being attacked?
Forwyn Member	Sat Nov 02 11:45:35 A stabbing is closer to a gunshot than a chokehold. Unless the chokehold is tight enough to cause tissue damage, resuscitation in a reasonable timeframe returns an individual to baseline quickly. Most people who pass out from chokeholds need no intervention, and recover on their own. Gunshot and stabbing victims aren't up and about ten minutes later. A mugger is handcuffed behind his back, and the positioning of his arms causes him to have a heart attack. Even though survival statistics for heart attacks range from 90 to 97% if intervention is prompt including hospitalization, first responders watch the mugger flounder for fifteen minutes. Is the person who handcuffed the mugger guilty of homicide?
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Nov 03 05:20:47 [jergtard (delusional retard, sociopathic abuser, subversive leftist, coward)]: "Thankfully, he will be judged by a jury of his peers. Perhaps they will think a 5 minute long choke hold is fine. ... He will be judged by his peers" Gotta love jergfag's disingenuous bile. jergfag did this same disingenuous bullshit with illegal invasion, claiming that they're not illegal until they're prosecuted due to "innocent until proven guilty". It's intentionally deceptive. In this case, the deception is that "[it will merely be Daniel Penny's *peers*, and you do like the jury system, don't you?]" — something said with the sick and twisted awareness that these are NYC leftists on the jury and that they are perhaps just as psychotic as jergfag. jergfag is basically telling you that a bunch of pathetic losers such as himself are probably on the jury. This is the logic of sociopathic abusers who gladly lord evil power over their victims — it's very common among those raised jewish, lutheran, or calvinist, since those are enslavement and abuse dogmas. And it's already not looking good on the jury front: • "seven women and five men" selected • "At least four people of color are on the jury." http://nyp...niel-penny-nyc-chokehold-case/ So the Venn-Diagram is where Penny looks like he's in trouble: • likely all NYC leftists (cowardly sebguls) • majority female • POC • at least one jew Cowardly people are the type to float this kind of ignorant and dangerously stupid logic: [jergtard]: "The core problem is the excessive part of what he did. A chokehold for 5 minutes kills." People with fighting experience know how fucking stupid that comment is, in addition to the fact that it departs from the case facts. Forwyn already pointed it out: [Forwyn]: "Most people who pass out from chokeholds need no intervention, and recover on their own." Penny was taught in the Marine Corps that blood chokes are soft controlling techniques and are indeed appropriate to the level of force that crazed subway-psychopath Jordan Neely was exhibiting. Penny correctly released the chokehold when Neely was losing consciousness, since Marine Corps training warns that chokeholds only pass into dangerous territory after about a minute of total unconsciousness (and most likely a full 4 minutes). Penny correctly operated within that continuum of force. Neely died because he's a drug-addled loser who got what he deserved and instigated — even though others did their best to deprive him of what he wanted (which was to rape and murder passengers). If anyone played "a stupid game", it was Neely, unless, of course, jergfag is admitting that left-wing control of the courts is "a stupid game" for people to play if they actually believe that jergfags are degenerate losers who do not deserve to know the gift of life. So only a left-wing jury of cowards will find Penny "guilty". New York Post points out that some of these jury-members admitted to seeing psychos freaking out on subways, but the question is whether they're cucks like subgul who say party lines like, "[Threatening to rape and murder people should not be a death sentence]" or "[You should just let degenerates rape your civilization without consequence!]" Outlaws and leftists forfeit their rights. Penny behaved very well and should be freed without a trial. It is already a disgrace that NYC wanted this trial at all.
jergul large member	Sun Nov 03 09:55:38 Jergul [brilliant intellect, protector of the infirm most likely a living saint]. I have strongly denoted I an against the illegal invasions by Elon Musk and Ayn Rand, but I do not favour arbitrary practice of law, so if they can do it, it seems harsh to get hysterical when others do to.
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Nov 03 09:58:16 Even when pretending to respond to a point I made, jergfag, who is a likely pederast, cannot help but practice the exact same disingenuous distortions that I said were formulaic of his malicious method. These people are ontologically evil, and if we successfully deport to Madagascar them and the invaders that they brought into the West to destroy us, it will be an incredible kindness compared to what they deserve.
jergul large member	Sun Nov 03 10:31:27 Jergul, hero of our times and defender of the meek, merely points out that irregularities in migration documentation is more the norm than the exception. Arbitrary application of justice is not justice at all. That does not mean laws should not be enforced, but recognize that you are still playing with human lives with humans often morally guilty of no more than wanting better futures for their children. You know, the exact same reason North American was invaded and occupied in the first place.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Nov 04 02:06:14 [jergfag (cowardly bitchboy)]: "You know, the exact same reason North American was invaded and occupied in the first place." Subversive re-framing and treasonous leftism. These United States are not a nation of immigrants but of pioneers. Pathetic leftists such as yourself do not know the difference because you believe that suckling at the teat of the Republic as a changeling is no different than fighting for it under its sacred banners. You've lived your entire life as a coward and subversive and so your every act and political motivation is born of self-annihilation and the jewish shit test of daring people to recognize that you must indeed be obliterated for them to know liberty. [jergfag (cowardly bitchboy)]: "playing with human lives with humans often morally guilty of no more than wanting better futures for their children." False. When someone enters the country at a place other than a designated port of entry that person is automatically guilty of 8 U.S.C. § 1325, are guilty of criminal trespassing, invasion, endangerment, fraud, parasitism, and general leftism. Their very first act upon entering a nation is a criminal act, making themselves into outlaws whose every action and indeed very presence makes no action against them morally wrong. To extend protections to these criminal invaders is to give aid and comfort to the absolute enemies of the West — a treasonous act whose punishment used to be known by all and will be known by all again.
jergul large member	Mon Nov 04 02:37:40 [jergul (steel-eyed muscular gift to women)] many pioners were in direct violation of treaties that were then and remain the highest laws of your lands. Though on arrival, were a mass of locust like invaders as even US newspapers documented at the time. They and their decendents would undoubtably be returned to where they came from in a fair universe, but it is what it is.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Nov 04 03:19:14 [jergtard (overt liar)]: "many pioners were in direct violation of treaties that were then and remain the highest laws of your lands" Now jergfag is just lying. He's obfuscating time periods because subversives have no morality. As demonstrated in the enslavement dogmas of judaism, lutheranism, and calvinism, jergfag's only recourse is to find whatever means he can to talk others into their enslavement — no matter how far this pushes him from the truth. And since there is no positive argument for enslavement dogma, he must lie and obfuscate. His are the words of ontological evil, incapable of honesty, good works, or good faith. There is no act against this sort that is wrong or impermissible, as that is the guiding principle of this sort in dealing with the noble West. Again, Madagascar is a kindness for these traitors.
jergul large member	Mon Nov 04 04:01:24 [jergul (custodian of truth and wisdom)]. Congress ratified numerous treaties that specifically barred locust scum/pioneers from entering territories. These treaties were the highest law of your land as you constitutional wording says. You seem to be under the illusion that there is something new about people swarming the new world. Nope. You are a decendent of multiple generations of illegal invaders and occupiers. What you are against now is simply part of what always has been. Those there resent new arrivals. Been like that since the Mayflower landings.
jergul large member	Mon Nov 04 04:06:45 You are not wrong to resent newcomers. It is after all the American way to do so. It has always been like that and it will always remain so. Your mistake is believing you can change the fabric of your nation by actually stopping new arrivals. That my friend is simply not what America is.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Nov 04 04:48:16 "Congress ratified" This absolute faggot still obfuscating by changing time periods. Absolute piece of shit subversive.
jergul large member	Mon Nov 04 05:09:30 Hard to be a subversive when representing the status quo. For "subversive", see cultural warriors such as yourself. Though funny you think the word is an insult frankly.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Nov 04 05:11:53 "Though funny you think the word is an insult frankly." The final proof that jergfag is an absolutely cowardly piece of shit faggot degen who must be deported to Madagascar.
jergul large member	Mon Nov 04 05:20:39 Geeze, I live North of most of Alaska and North of almost all of the former Stalin Gulag camps. I have self-deported to where I am a long time ago and Madagascar aint got nothing on it. Not that I actually consider myself under the jurisdiction of the Americas, but I will profess to enjoying my observer status quite a bit.
jergul large member	Mon Nov 04 05:25:00 I should check, but I rather doubt 2000 people in Alaska live further North than I do. Madagaskar. What a wierd idea (though I do know the Nazi's had that idea as a possible final solution to the Jewish question for a while. The bedfellows you like to keep:).
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Nov 04 17:32:55 So, in case anyone was wondering how the NYC prosecutor's office was handling this trial, it's basically even *more* race-baiting that you might have presumed: ----------- http://x.com/innercitypress/status/1853470166362837280 "ADA: When you saw the white man holding on to Mr. Neely, how were they? Rosario: His arm on his neck. ADA: Where is Mr. Neely's back with respect to the white man? Was Mr. Neely lying on top of the white man? Rosario: Like this. He had him held. The doors opened" ADA: What the white man still holding on to Jordan's neck? Rosario: Yes. ADA: People's Exhibit 7a - where are the white man's legs? Rosario: I don't know. ADA: 7b, another still, what's this? Rosario: He's holding him ADA: Exhibit 8 - when was this? Rosario: After ----------- In other words, she's consistently referring to Penny as "the White Man" in all of her questioning. This questioning is by Assistant District Attorney Dafna Yoran, who appears in these file images (collected by this rando Twitter user): http://x.com/UBSirius/status/1850659438211821918 "Yoran" is a traditional jewish name, so the anti-White hatred likely comes naturally.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Nov 04 17:39:20 Oof. • Born and raised in Israel. • Is in a lesbian marriage. • hates White people http://x.com/ted_oneill/status/1853168225175101752 They really could not even hide what kind of clowns are in this particular circus.
Rugian Member	Mon Nov 04 17:41:01 ^ *looks at her photograph* THAT'S A MAN, BABY
kargen Member	Mon Nov 04 18:44:42 The local powers that be feared riots if they didn't do something so they made the arrest with no plan for an end game.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Tue Nov 05 03:06:08 "Penny was taught in the Marine Corps that blood chokes are soft controlling techniques and are indeed appropriate to the level of force that crazed subway-psychopath Jordan Neely was exhibiting. Penny correctly released the chokehold when Neely was losing consciousness, since Marine Corps training warns that chokeholds only pass into dangerous territory after about a minute of total unconsciousness (and most likely a full 4 minutes). Penny correctly operated within that continuum of force" CC, you're making shit up again. You release the choke when they go limp or unresponsive. Measured in seconds to dozens of seconds. Not minutes. There's no world in USMC training where I'm blood choking someone for 4 minutes. There is *absolutely* a world where I quickly kill them and move on to the next task, of course, but this isn't a middle school dance where I'm spooning and cuddling with someone for 4 minutes. And it doesn't really matter, old boy was a NYPD cop at the time, the NYPD policies prevail. I went from grunt to embassy guard, trained by federal law enforcement. I don't get to throw a grenade into an office, in that context, because that's what would have been appropriate to an infantryman, which is what you are suggesting.
Habebe Member	Tue Nov 05 03:12:47 I haven't seen the article. But, choking someone out very much so can lead n to death easily. It's not something to be used lightly. Initially, Im thinking Jergul is making sense here.
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Nov 05 07:30:43 [earthfaggot (low-information left-wing dogma bot)]: "CC, you're making shit up again ... which is what you are suggesting." I realize that you're illiterate, but you're operating in a straw man fallacy. Re-read what I wrote, and realize that you are a fucking disingenuous liar. Of course, we both know that you're too much of a coward to do so. Every time I call you out on your pathetic libels or call you a mean name, you turn into a little bitchboy faggot and decide that decorum has been violated and you therefore need not say anything at all. You're still operating like a '90s liberal debate-me-bro faggot who thinks that he can make an «ad hom» and then disengage when the favor is returned. That is your nature as a pathetic leftist, and no Marine Corps training ever overruled it, hence why you were sent home early, you blithering bitch. So, instead, I'll point out to passersby that earthpig is indeed a disingenuous liar who will leverage UP's understanding that he was in the Marine Corps to falsify Marine Corps doctrine and obfuscate causality. Notice the lies that he operated in by comparing what I said to how he lied about it (he is a liar): ----- {Instance 1 of earthfag's lies}: [CC]: "Penny correctly released the chokehold when Neely was losing consciousness" [earthfag]: "There's no world in USMC training where I'm blood choking someone for 4 minutes" I.e., I properly stated that the bloodchoke is released immediately (keyword "when"), but earthfaggot the liar pretended that I said otherwise. (He is illiterate. He is a liar.) ----- ----- {Instance 2 of earthfag's lies}: [CC]: "since Marine Corps training warns that chokeholds only pass into dangerous territory after about a minute of total unconsciousness (and most likely a full 4 minutes)" [earthfaggot]: "There's no world in USMC training where I'm blood choking someone for 4 minutes." This is outright false. Earthfaggot probably left as a gray belt (2nd rank in the MCMAP) so his memory is shit and his training expired early due to his incompetence, but Marine Corps training explicitly tells *recruits* at the tan belt level in **boot camp** that the blood choke is *lethal* if held for about a minute past unconsciousness, with death almost certain beyond 4 minutes. This is the simple reality of the blood choke and is taught as a safety protocol during training to avoid injuries. The training strategy is that the person being choked immediately taps when he or she feels a loss of consciousness, and the person choking releases the choke if the choked person taps (indicating loss of consciousness) or goes limp without tapping (indicating unconsciousness). Daniel Penny performed this correctly; he applied the choke until the criminal leftist went unconscious, then released. That said, in the upper belt levels and even at the tan belt level, it is explicitly taught that the bloodchoke can indeed be used to kill. earthfaggot is obfuscating by saying that he would not do this in *training*, which is correct, but the Marine Corps *does* teach that the bloodchoke *can* be used as lethal force by holding the choke for longer. If earthfaggot denies this, he is merely leaning into his character as a subversive leftist at the cost of the undeniable truth. ----- ----- {Instance 3 of earthfag's lies}: [CC]: "since Marine Corps training warns that chokeholds only pass into dangerous territory after about a minute of total unconsciousness (and most likely a full 4 minutes)" [earthfag]: "I went from grunt to embassy guard, trained by federal law enforcement. I don't get to throw a grenade into an office, in that context, because that's what would have been appropriate to an infantryman, which is what you are suggesting." That was not at all what I suggested, but notice how easily the earthfaggot-leftist let this lie roll off of his poison-logged tongue. He tried to say that I was approving 4 minutes whereas I was saying, "[release immediately]" (again, keyword "when"). To explain, earthfaggot is talking about how continuum training depends on the application of force within the particular theater of operation. In general Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP) training, the entire continuum is taught at each belt level so that it can provide a baseline for all theaters and skill levels. This begins with striking techniques (basic defense with fists, rifle, knife, and weapons of opportunity) and increases to compliance-control techniques (control techniques being more difficult; e.g., chokes, holds, pain manipulation). In the Marine Corps Embassy Security Group (MCESG) (i.e., the embassy-duty billet; Marine Security Guards (MSGs)), there is a greater focus on public perceptions of force, hence, there is a greater emphasis placed on non-lethal force and non-lethal controlling techniques (e.g., baton training, OC spray, CS gas release for crowd control). In the office environments of the embassy, Marines are equipped with weapons and protocols less likely to penetrate cubicles and create collateral damage (e.g., equipped with the M870 shotgun rather than crew weapons, equipped with 9mm Hydra-Shok rounds to shorten pistol penetration). In hand-to-hand techniques, the MSG thus focuses more on the grey belt syllabus, which includes baton strikes and pain compliance. This level of force can be used, for instance, to remove someone from the consulate section if they have been denied a visa. earthfaggot is hoping that you'll be distracted with this and not realize what he is omitting: even as an MSG, he was expected to know the tan-belt technique of the blood choke, and that blood choke would, indeed, have been appropriate for an MSG to use — it is simply de-prioritized in favor of other grey belt techniques, such as the escort position and pain compliance. Does this mean that tan belt moves cannot be used by any Marine under *any* theater? Fucking *no*, but earthfaggot is attempting to obfuscate with his hand-waving to get you to think that because he would not hurt his fellow dysgenic leftist that no one should have at all. This is false. With that said, Daniel Penny, even at the tan belt level, was taught this compliance-control technique (bloodchoke being a tan belt move). He properly utilized the technique given the threat condition, properly executed it, and properly released it. The threat level was a violent dysgenic criminal leftist who was an immediate threat to life and serious bodily harm. In the Marine Corps, this justifies lethal force. Instead! Daniel Penny opted to use the more *difficult* maneuver of less-than-lethal soft control tactics (i.e., here the blood choke). In other words, the violent dysgenic criminal leftist had already forfeited his life, but in Daniel Penny's benevolence he subdued this criminal with one of the kindest methods available to him. Other MCMAP options could include handcuffing techniques (without cuffs), muscle-gouging, and joint manipulation. The problem with these options is that the violent dysgenic criminal leftist was operating in a fast-twitch psychosis (being a drugged up leftist) and thus those lesser options would have resulted in counter-attacks such as strikes and grappling. Penny instead correctly saw that the blood choke was the best way to prevent those kinds of attacks. The violent dysgenic criminal leftist deserved to die, but Penny tried his best to preserve the violent dysgenic criminal leftist's life. He should be given the key to the city.
jergul large member	Tue Nov 05 11:17:50 EP fought in the 2nd battle of Falluja CC. Have some respect.
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Nov 05 12:03:06 earthfag is a faggot and a communist and therefore less than human, just like you, jergfag. Get rekt, bitchboy.
jergul large member	Tue Nov 05 12:08:38 Mkay, decorated war heroes are faggots and communists. Dont let that disharmony break you, but perhaps you need to take a close look at your allies too. If faggot and communist EP can cloak his illbegotten ways by maliciously participating in combat, then who knows what your socalled fellow travellers are up to?
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Nov 05 12:14:31 jergfag is such a fucking cuck that the only reason he's trying to weaponize patriotism is for the explicitly selective purpose of aiding his fellow commie faggot. Once again, his so called "contrarianism" always flows in one direction: towards the Regime and it's totalitarian enslavement and annihilation dogma (jergfag is in a cult). If earthfaggot were a right-wing Heinlein fan who thought jergtard were a commie faggot, jergfaggot would not be making his above argument **at all**. You are a transparent bot with no soul. Getting you a helicopter ride would be the moderate position. I consider Madagascar a kindness.
jergul large member	Tue Nov 05 12:20:57 CC The scale is more like: Helicopter right <- where I am -> Madagascar Musk is rolling out internet down there. Nice climate, interesting wildlife, some big cities. I would be a millionaire with my purchasing power. Talk about self-realization opportunities I could tell you people about every day in this forum.
Rugian Member	Tue Nov 05 12:41:06 You seem a bit, uh...provincial to be relocating to half a world away, if I'm being honest.
jergul large member	Tue Nov 05 12:59:05 Ruggy Well, it would be a mandatory relocation on the State dime if I understand CC correctly. But an all inclusive, so not much for me to do. I am just pointing out it would be an upgrade. But do remember that seafaring provincials traditionally do see a lot of the world quite often. Madagascar does not really seem that far away. Further to Minnosota with all that yucky land seperating it from the sea.
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Nov 05 13:19:38 [Rugian]: "You seem a bit, uh...provincial to be relocating to half a world away, if I'm being honest." Yeah, he probably wouldn't hack it. In programs of relocation, property and assets are typically seized and a flat stipend is allotted. This is to prevent, for instance, subversive bankers from transferring all of their assets to diamonds, stashing diamonds up their asses, and fleeing to NYC. So sebgul-types would have their possessions seized, would stay in detention centers for a few weeks and monitored for ass-diamonds, and would start over in Madagascar with maybe $1,000. I look at it optimistically, though. That is, if they are not subversives and I was wrong about them, then surely they can prove their virtues by rebuilding Madagascar in the image of the West. They would, after all, be living there with all of the rapist-migrants who were their mass-migration allies (their benevolent vessels of "our democracy"!), and surely there is good favor between these client groups and the sebguls which transcends mere economics. Surely.
jergul large member	Tue Nov 05 13:27:30 Rgr. Wealth planning strategies are needed. Thanks for the headsup CC. I will work something out if that contingency ever seems likely.
jergul large member	Tue Nov 05 13:34:28 In other news, the sun will be back on March third. It would be a few weeks earlier but local conditions block it from cresting the horizon before then.
Earthpig GTFO HOer	Tue Nov 05 22:22:57 @cc - you're correct that I'm not going to debate this with you. I don't care if you elect to disagree. Intended audience was everyone else. @everyone else: There's no 4 minute blood choke in USMC training. What there *is* in USMC training is you follow the appropriate ROE or force continuum for the mission, task, time, and/or unit at hand. Feb 2004 I wasn't shooting you unless I saw a weapon and felt you were about to aim it at me, at the soonest. May 2004 it's likely best that I not see someone looking my way while on a cell phone. Later when I'm on embassy duty, I don't get to invoke Battle of Fallujah ROEs in the office building full of American diplomats. And had I joined a local PD when I got out, I don't get to do it there either, not for the blood choke, and not for the heel stomp to the skull. I haven't expressed an opinion on this incident overall b/c I havent yet formed one. But the "derp he's a former Marine so he had xyz training defense" isn't valid.
Seb Member	Wed Nov 06 00:07:26 Jergul: Re treaties, I'd have gone with violation of the proclamation line and desire to repudiate crown treaties with Indigenous American as part of the causes of the American declaration of independence.
jergul large member	Wed Nov 06 00:08:45 Seb A fair argument. I limited the scope to treaties negotiated by the US and violated by locust swarms of illegal occupiers.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Nov 06 04:54:52 [earthfaggot the coward]: "you're correct that I'm not going to debate this with you." Yes, I know that you are a coward. You've been a coward your whole life. Now help clean up or get the fuck out. [earthfaggot the coward]: "There's no 4 minute blood choke in USMC training ... not for the heel stomp to the skull." For those who are not cowards and are not illiterate like earthfaggot the coward, do you see how he said exactly what I said he would say but in less detail, with more of his lies, more stupidly, and less coherently? He is too stupid and illiterate to realize that I know even more about this than he does. If only he were literate! He could just look up the NAVMACs and refresh his shit memory! If only he could just get over being called a little bitchboy faggot and actually read the steel-man argument behind the insults! If only he had learned in boot camp to find a mental core within himself wherein no amount of yelling and abuse could override his ability to isolate the core task and pursue mission accomplishment! If only! You might ask at this point why earthfaggot the coward is so predictably incompetent. It is simple: he is a leftist. I have pointed this out previously with Heinlein's formula. A lot of faggots/leftists think that if they just follow one fraction of Heinlein's formula that they should earn the franchise for all time — that if they perform difficult service *once* that they can do whatever they want for the rest of their lives, even if it means actively subverting society. This is false, and earthfaggot the coward is a good example of why. In Heinlein's society, authority and responsibility are not just matched once in a temporary act of service and then forgotten. The franchise can be stripped. People can be executed for failure. Heinlein reiterates this constantly in the case of people who fail to preserve the life of society. He is talking about leftists and subversives who may do exactly what earthfaggot did: go through one crucible just so they can destroy society with the authority that they newly stand upon. Heinlein even talks about this further in "The Puppet Masters", where it becomes necessary to actively seek out and destroy infiltrators within society who ascend on their authority but are actively undermining society with that authority. earthfaggot is doing exactly what Heinlein's infiltrator-villains do: he is flashing "Marine Corps veteran" at the forum, hoping pathetically that that is enough to override his lies and subversions. He thinks that if he drops little credentialist duck-droppings that you'll be so dazzled that you'll just agree with his conclusions, but what are his conclusions? They're lies and distortions. And here we see it: [earthfaggot the coward]: "I haven't expressed an opinion on this incident overall b/c I havent yet formed one. But the "derp he's a former Marine so he had xyz training defense" isn't valid." earthfaggot came into this with zero idea what is even going on. He lied about Marine Corps training, he lied about the value of his experience, he used williamthecoward-level Regime credentialism as red herrings, and at the end of it he admits that he has not got a fucking clue and his opinion is worthless anyways. I, meanwhile, specifically explained that the continuum of force taught in Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP) training explicitly teaches that the bloodchoke can be used as a less-lethal option, that less-lethal force demonstrates a higher degree of control, and that by many Marine Corps standards Penny would actually have been justified in using *lethal* force but instead opted to use a higher degree of control to preserve life and *avoid* death and serious bodily harm — i.e., the death and serious bodily harm with which the violent dysgenic criminal leftist was threatening others. Penny performed the move correctly, as exactly instructed in MCMAP training — releasing the bloodchoke when the violent dysgenic criminal leftist went limp and/or showed a loss of consciousness. The violent dysgenic criminal leftist deserved to die, but Penny, deserving the key to the city, protected others from death and serious bodily harm by subduing the violent dysgenic criminal leftist with soft control techniques that would preserve even the violent dysgenic criminal leftist's life had the violent dysgenic criminal leftist not been so shattered by drug use that he had the cardiovascular system of a 90-year-old vegetable. TLDR: The *only* reason that earthfaggot is lying and distorting is because he himself is a leftist and is therefore operating within the slave revolt's formula of mindlessly supporting the left's violent dysgenic criminal caste. If people on the right are unable to identify infiltrator leftists, then they will allow subversive leftists such as earthfaggot to pour poison into their ears using the credentials that they falsified in the same way that a shitbag falling out of a run is technically still a "Marine" when he brags at the local bars. But the nature of the leftist always emerges when he begs the question. The leftist will always support the violent dysgenic criminal leftist, because he sees himself as the criminal and as the destroyer of society. Cowardice is in earthfaggot's nature.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Nov 13 01:17:10 "JUST IN: Police bodycam footage shows witnesses *defending* Daniel Penny for protecting them from Jordan Neely who they say was drugged out. "The guy in the tan (Penny) did take him down really respectfully... he didn't choke him." Penny was charged with m*nslaughter & criminally negligent h*micide by Alvin Bragg for protecting NYC subway passengers from Neely. Penny is a hero." [November 12th, 2024] http://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1856376458664403066 ----- black witness on the scene recorded on bodycam: "[Penny] took [the violent dysgenic criminal leftist] to the ground and gave him a choke hold. Not a hard choke hold. Just enough to secure him. And the guy fought, and he kept holding him. Alright? And that's when everbody totally realized what was going on. And I think this guy is on drugs, you know, because when he came in, he was unbelievably off the charts. He scared the living daylights out of everybody."
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Nov 18 15:54:17 Sean Fitzgerald ("Actual Justice Warrior") did an update video which includes.. • some more prosecutorial misconduct • video of Penny at the police station saying the same thing as the witness in the above link and saying it before he had any knowledge that the violent dygsenic criminal leftist had even died — since that death happened about two hours after the choke was released (e.g., that the violent dysgenic criminal leftist had openly declared his intent to murder passengers, that Penny had not even been holding the choke very hard) • the coroner attempting to change her findings from "[this violent dysgenic criminal leftist who was clearly on amphetamines and was administered Narcan by paramedics obviously OD'ed]" to "[Oh, a White guy was involved? He probably murdered our fellow violent dysgenic criminal leftist then.]" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fq0oVwM5jY So we're seeing repeats of how the left went after former Officer and current political-prisoner Derek Chauvin. In that case, Floyd was seen on video swallowing his drug stash as police tried to remove him from his vehicle, and this precipitated Floyd's OD, with Floyd himself asking to be put on the ground because he had shocked his own cardiovascular system with drugs. But, the coroner ignored the lethal dose of fentanyl in Floyd's system after being coached to believe that Chauvin's knee was somehow more lethal. Now, Penny's contact with this violent dysgenic criminal leftist is being treated similarly. The criminal was clearly high on drugs when he entered the subway, was alive for two hours *after* Penny released his hold, and was administered Narcan by paramedics, possibly lethally accelerating the leftist's heart-rate following his own amphetamine usage. It is not difficult to ascertain the state's motive here. One reason for this prosecution is that Penny is a White man and therefore an enemy of the Regime (which is actively instituting anarcho-tyranny against its enemies), but there is another reason: Police are on video administering no aid to the leftist after Penny himself *did* administer aid (e.g., the police rolled the leftist onto his back rather than keeping him on his side and then just stood over him for a while), paramedics delivered an opioid treatment rather than an amphetamine treatment, and the leftist died in state custody. In other words, if Penny cannot be blamed by the state, then the state would be liable for a wrongful death. Like the Fight-Club formula, the cost of a politically motivated prosecution against Penny is *less* than the cost of the state being sued for a wrongful death. The cost of paying state prosecutors their salary is fixed, whereas the cost of losing a wrongful-death lawsuit could be upwards of $20 million.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Nov 18 16:19:43 You can see the kind of sensational headlines that Regime media is using to lie: "Daniel Penny misused combat technique in deadly subway chokehold, trainer testifies" [ABC 7 NY; November 14th, 2024] http://abc...ly-trainer-testifies/15545913/ Did he "misuse" it, though? No. While the prosecution got the trainer to say so, the trainer actually testified the *opposite* under cross. What he testified is nearly identical to what I said above (and which earthfaggot erroneously opposed): • "Done right, the maneuver should knock a person out without killing them, according to Joseph Caballer, a combat instructor in the Marine Corps who trained Penny in several types of holds. But held too long, the technique can restrict the flow of blood to a person's brain, ending their life in a matter of minutes." • ""Once the person is rendered unconscious, that's when you're supposed to let go," Caballer told a jury on Thursday." And did Penny let go? Yes. Neely was still conscious when Penny let go. Neely was even still alive for about two hours after this. And what did Caballer testify to this question? • "Pressed by Penny's attorney, Caballer acknowledged that he could not "definitively tell from watching the video how much pressure is actually being applied."" Yup. So Caballer says exactly what I said, which is that the bloodchoke is taught in a specific way (e.g., induces consciousness, release at unconsciousness to avoid death). But, he then claims that Penny did not perform it correctly (false).. and cannot say *how* it was performed "incorrectly", not even being able to find evidence of his claim in the video when it was played for him. He also incorrectly states that the bloodchoke makes it difficult to breath, whereas a good bloodchoke allows breathing but only interrupts bloodflow. In none of the video was Penny's arm on Neely's throat, btw, showing that Penny was properly cradling Neely's head for carotid-artery contact. So in the video itself, it is plain to see: Penny applied a choke when Neely was his most agitated, then released when Neely started calming down. When Neely went limp, Penny completely released Neely and put him in the recovery position. ( The recovery position is taught both in MCMAP and in Marine Corps swim instructor training (MCIWS/MCITWS ). Original Neely video for reference: http://x.com/BlueRepublik/status/1653920129871233024
obaminated Member	Wed Nov 20 17:02:55 http://www...chiatrist-testimony-court.html "Neely also suffered 'paranoid fears that people want to hurt him,' 'grandiose delusions that people are jealous of him', and reported hearing 'the devil's voice.'" Jesus christ that can be applied to TW, cuckhat and murder. No joke.
murder Member	Wed Nov 20 17:06:43 "Jesus christ that can be applied to TW, cuckhat and murder. No joke." I hear the devil's voice every time your leader speaks.
obaminated Member	Wed Nov 20 17:10:06 Oh, also applies to fagfish too but we already know that guy has been in and out of psych wards for many years. But really. Shows the general mental unwellness of people on this forum. And surprisingly they are all on the left. I don't recall rugian, sa, myself etc showing any signs of paranoia about people out to get us, grandiose egos or hearing voices.
murder Member	Wed Nov 20 17:22:49 "I don't recall rugian, sa, myself etc showing any signs of paranoia about people out to get us ..." Just replace you.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Nov 20 21:25:31 [obaminated]: "really. Shows the general mental unwellness of people on this forum. And surprisingly they are all on the left." 100%! Leftists are more likely to be afflicted with mental illnesses, be on SSRIs, have no disgust reaction, and have no threat perception. So again, when leftists defend this violent dysgenic criminal leftist, it is because they see themselves in this leftist and seek to defend their own destroyer client groups. Normal people just see a sick weirdo who had literal shit on his pants and clearly needed to be medicated and locked away, but leftists see someone who should run for president.
Cherub Cow Member	Sat Nov 23 21:20:09 Two quick updates: • the defense rested, with closing statements to follow after the holiday. • the jury is not sequestered Just imagine a bunch of NYC leftists on the jury going to the homes of their leftist families for the holidays. What would tumblefag's family decide amongst themselves? murder's? Whereas John Adams prided himself in showing the British that the American experiment could weigh true justice outside of the prejudices of slave morality and revenge, the modern leftist's sense of justice is devoid of conscience and is entirely based in resentment and hatred for nobility. This should not have even gone to trial, but now his rightful innocence is a gamble among NYC residents. A mother with a five-year-old: "I've encountered many things on the Subway but nothing that put fear into me like that. Neely was a whole new level. I had to use my stroller as a barricade to protect my child. I was relieved when Penny stepped in."
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Dec 03 01:26:40 Most of the closing arguments wrapped Monday, but the jury will reconvene today (December 3rd) for wrapup and instructions before beginning deliberations. ABC has a biased take, but it includes selections of the Prosecution and Defense arguments: [ABC News; December 1st, 2024] http://abc...ordan-neely/story?id=116198488 The prosecution's closing remarks were pretty thin and require that you ignore a lot of the reality. Some points they made include that.. • less than deadly force could have been used (bad logic because that's exactly what Penny was doing: soft controlling techniques) • "Everyone the defendant wanted to protect had already left the train" (retarded logic because the violent dysgenic criminal leftist was still struggling and Penny was waiting for police to show up so that they could make an arrest) • Penny did not care enough about the violent dysgenic criminal leftist (pathos argument) • "The defendant was warned three times, at least, and he ignored those warnings" (False framing; he was not "warned three times"; while the violent criminal dysgenic leftist was struggling, passengers cautioned Penny to maintain soft controls, and Penny did exactly that) The defense had much stronger arguments: • "A "violent and desperate" Jordan Neely entered the uptown F train on May 1, 2023, "filled with rage and not afraid of any consequences," causing passengers to be "frozen with fear" before Daniel Penny "acted to save those people,"" (This is proven out in nearly all witness testimony, with commuters who were present having expressed that they were afraid for their lives and had never felt that much danger before) • ""Of course, [Penny] didn't [release Neely]. He had to remain in place out of fear that Neely would break free," Raiser said." (A very obvious point that the prosecution had to omit; the violent dysgenic criminal leftist would have likely been even more violent once released. It was imperative that he be restrained until police could cuff him.) • "The defense argued Neely died from a genetic condition and the synthetic marijuana found in his system." (Yup. Neely was loaded up on uppers, was ignored by police for 20 minutes because he was so filthy that police did not want to touch him or administer aid, and EMS administered an upper when they arrived on the scene, killing him. Neely OD'ed.) • "He could have squeezed Mr. Neely to unconsciousness," Raiser said. "Instead, he laid with him on the dirty subway floor while the smell of uncleanliness…and feces enveloped him." (Yup. Penny applied an even more careful chokehold with Neely than he needed to and was willing to make contact with a smelly dysgenic criminal leftist who literally had shit stains on his pants when he entered the subway.) • ""This was not a chokehold death," Raiser said. "They failed to prove their case, period."" (Yup.) So, again, Penny should not have even been charged. The only reason this trial exists is because the NYC D.A. is a race hustler, and the city is at fault for Neely's death due to the absolute neglect of the police and EMS and thus could be sued for millions by Neely's family. If NYC can pin this on Penny, then they can avoid liability. They are fucking evil. The only question here is whether or not NYC will prove that they are incapable of filling a jury with reasonable people or will prove that NYC may indeed have 12 people remaining who have a conscience. Jury with no conscience = the state convicts an innocent man Jury with a conscience = Penny freed, state sued for millions for Neely's death
williamthebastard Member	Wed Dec 04 14:37:15 Dont worry, MyBloodDisgustsMeTardo, when trump starts his Turn Illegal Family Members In For USD 1000, you'll be able to make a cool 200,000 before he throws you out of the country. Thats got to be worth like 50% in your home country, right?
Rugian Member	Wed Dec 04 15:15:52 How racist do you have to be to equate Hispanics with illegals. Holy shit WTB.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Dec 04 20:28:27 The banality of evil: "[Daniel Penny case prosecutor] Dafna Yoran talks about how she reduced a murderer's sentence [in 2018] because he had past trauma" http://rum...use-he-had.html?e9s=src_v1_ucp Article from 2018: [ABC NY; May 18th, 2018] http://abc7ny.com/elderly-man-robbed-robbery-inside-bank-upper-west-side/3490491/ The TLDR is that Yoran in the prosecutor's office was presented with, "Jarel", who murdered an old man in cold blood during a $300 robbery, and even though it was Yoran's duty to put this violent criminal behind bars forever, she decided to "understand" this violent murderer and "[see where he's coming from]" and "learn" that, actually, he murdered that old man because of.. umm.. socioeconomic factors.. or whatever. :| Fun fact: Lots of people are affected by "[muh socioeconomic factors]" and somehow manage not to murder old men at ATMs! Fun fact: "Jarel", as Yoran called him, is a black man, and his name is actually Matthew Lee. Weird. Why would Yoran think that Matthew Lee's name is "Jarel"? Why would she have a savior complex for.. "Jarel"? Why would she have no such imperative for Penny? Hmm. Another fun fact: the man that Lee murdered was an Asian college professor, Young Kun Kim. Why would "Jarel" target an Asian man? Why does that keep happening? Hmm. So yeah, if the prosecutor's racial animosity was not clear enough, we have a pattern of her not only targeting White people for prosecution and having her office refer to Penny as "the White man" during witness questioning, but she also makes sure to apply "restorative justice" for the "historically marginalized" even when they're maniac killers who have racially targeted and murdered Asian elders. Leftism is a spiritual disease.
jergul large member	Thu Dec 05 00:47:12 Did you enjoy The Eichmann book? Re "Banality of Evil". I reference it quite often (most recently on best possible gas chamber door design on engineer autism).
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Dec 05 02:46:57 Interesting development from the deliberations: "Daniel Penny jury fixated on single piece of testimony about how Jordan Neely died" [Daily Mail; December 5th, 2024] http://www...ootage-Jordan-Neely-death.html "The jury of seven women and five men sent a note to Judge Maxwell Wiley around 3pm on Wednesday asking to rehear part of the city Medical Examiner's testimony about issuing a death certificate without getting toxicology results for the 30-year-old victim." This was raised above (see comment "Mon Nov 18 15:54:17"), but one major issue among the prosecution's witnesses was Medical Examiner Dr. Cynthia Harris, who did *not* wait for toxicology to return before making a ruling on the cause of death. Basically, she read some police reports and was shown the 6-minute video and made her ruling most largely based on the *video* — the same foolish error made during political-prisoner Chauvin's trial by the Regime's Medical Examiner. She then made this absolutely psychotic statement during the trial: "'No toxicological result imaginable was going to change my opinion,' Harris said, even if it showed 'enough fentanyl to put down an elephant.'" This is a completely discrediting statement. It basically means that she is evaluating the scene based on her non-experience with physical holds (which is not her purview) rather than her experience with autopsies (which *is* her purview), *and* she is willfully disregarding a major piece of evidence, since toxicology has a direct impact with regards to the police and EMS administration of Narcan (i.e., drug interactions). She even admits to not knowing about holds: "She also claimed at one point that she did not know whether she observed Penny exerting 'sufficiently consistent pressure' on Neely's neck in the video to kill him" Meanwhile, the defense witness *did* incorporate the evidence and reached the opposite conclusion: "[Forensic pathologist and consultant] Chundru said he believed Neely died from “the combined effects of sickle cell crisis, the schizophrenia, the struggle and restraint and the synthetic marijuana” that was in his system. He said he had reviewed Neely’s autopsy report, two toxicology reports, genetic studies, photographs from the autopsy, “a couple of videos of the incident,” psychiatric records, witness statements and transcripts of police body camera video, among other things." [NBC News; November 21st, 2024] http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/defense-pathologist-says-jordan-neely-didnt-die-chokehold-nyc-subway-rcna180958 So the prosecution's Medical Examiner's error is a crucial oversight in particular because of a few variables: • Neely was observed by passengers of the car to have been extremely agitated, with witnesses claiming that he was clearly on drugs. If incorporated with the defense's pathologist-testimony, the "synthetic marijuana" was thus likely laced with amphetamines. • Police administered Narcan to Neely. • Narcan is made for treating *opiates*, with publications on Narcan stating that the administering of Narcan can cause high blood pressure, an increase in heart rate, and seizures. These Narcan effects can be boosted following the use of amphetamines, particularly amphetamines in the presence of drugs which affect opioid receptors — such as the THC in synthetic marijuana. This is because Narcan releases drugs from opioid receptors, and if other drugs are present in the system, those drugs can be re-activated. In other words, Neely's opioid receptors were causing system depression due to binding to the THC in the marijuana, and the amphetamines were already overpowering those effects, causing psychosis and agitation and facilitating his attack on the subway's riders. When Narcan was administered, the depressing effects of the THC were released from the opioid receptors, re-enabling the amphetamines in Neely's system. The result of releasing all depressing effects on the system while boosting the presence of stimulants in a system already over-dosing on amphetamines would be a massive increase in heart rate, cardiac arrest and/or a stroke, and then death. In fact, the Medical Examiner herself notes that Neely was "purple" when he was brought to her. Because her opinion was erroneously colored by the video and because she ignored toxicology, she interpreted this as a result of being choked. In fact, both a stroke and cardiac arrest can cause purpling in the face. Combining this with the police's unwillingness to provide breathing assistance and Neely's sickle-cell anemia, Neely clearly over-dosed and was given drugs which further accelerated his death. TLDR: The jury seems to be rightly suspicious of the Medical Examiner's testimony and realizes that something does not add up. • They know from the defense's witness that synthetic marijuana (K2) was present in Neely's system, • they know that the defense's witness actually incorporated the toxicology reports into his findings whereas the prosecution's ME willfully did *not* So, in other words, there was one major question that the jury needed to ask, and it's exactly what they asked. Even so, as I said before... Jury with no conscience = the state convicts an innocent man Jury with a conscience = Penny freed, state sued for millions for Neely's death
jergul large member	Thu Dec 05 02:51:50 What are the lesser charges in the case?
jergul large member	Thu Dec 05 03:10:25 "lesser charge of criminally negligent homicide" There we go.
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Dec 05 05:53:15 Here is most of the Medical Examiner's initial report: http://sta...dacted-peoples-exhibit-40-.pdf Notable details: • p6 — description of external exam on May 2nd • p12 — initial toxicology report that lists Narcan and synthetic marijuana (MDMB-4en-PINACA) • p35 — May 1st report notes, "Dr. Bharati reports no obvious trauma to the neck or other areas of the body" (Dr. Bharati is likely the attending physician at the hospital where Neely was initially brought.) The difference between Bharati's assessment and the ME's could be due to inattentiveness by Bharati or the fact that ME Cynthia Harris did not conduct her exam until the following day, at which point bruising may have appeared. Even so, her descriptions of neck bruising on p6 use words such as "faint" and "vaguely" to describe these injuries. Internal examination of the neck reveals small muscle hemorrhaging on the order of 1/2" and 1/4" bruising, and the trachea is in tact (i.e., a blood choke was performed without touching the trachea). The report even notes lots of sickle-cell coagulation throughout, showing that what tiny hemorrhaging occurred was likely due to Neely's status as Mr. Glass. Sub-note of p12 is that a "targeted drug screen" should screen for a variety of drugs including amphetamines (per NYC toxicology requirements: https://www.nyc.gov/assets/ocme/downloads/ pdf/MgmtAdmin%20-%20D%20-%20Analytical%20Testing%20Guidelines%20PM.pdf ) , and it lists "none detected". This would mean that Narcan drug interactions would be less of an issue than I thought above. And if that report is correct, and given the presence of synthetic marijuana and Neely's mental-health history, he likely experienced a THC-induced mania, which can occur with people with his mental health history ( https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2811144/ ). A separate report on Neely from Bellevue with dates across 2017 to 2021 lists a history of schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder; chronic drug and alcohol abuse, including K2 (synthetic marijuana); delusions; and "severe and persistent mental illness" ( http://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/jordan-neely-medical-records-defense-exhibit.pdf ). Some of this previously made the news, including his belief that Tupac contacted him telepathically and told him he has to change the world. The examiner seems to believe that that is a paranoid delusion. Still, they normalized him with haloperidol lactate as late as 2021, but NYC's "defund" policies made sure that he'd be back on the street doing K2 and having manic episodes on subways. It's kind of like releasing bio-weapons onto the streets is the point. The Dark Knight Trilogy isn't fiction, apparently.
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Dec 05 17:15:11 Wow, *another* day of deliberation. They resume Friday morning. "Jury deliberates fate of Daniel Penny in subway chokehold death trial for 3rd day" [ABC NY; December 5th 2024] http://abc...hokehold-death-trial/15623829/ The jury *again* focused on the Medical Examiner's cross-examination, trying to understand why she would claim that toxicology was irrelevant when toxicology revealed that Neely was on K2 which induces psychotic episodes and hypoxia and is particularly dangerous for people with a history of mental illness — all on top of Neely's sickle-cell anemia. • K2-induced psychotic episode (can't calm down) • K2-induced hypoxia (can't get enough oxygen) • sickle-cell anemia (can't get enough oxygen) • mild physical exertion (can't get enough oxygen) It's not complicated, though I understand the difficulty in confronting this, jury: she was lying. The defense witness incorporated a more complete fact pattern which *included* toxicology and Neely's health history. That's why he was able to say that it was *not* the choke. Neely was going to crash and burn even if he tripped over his own feet.
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Dec 06 11:41:50 News from about an hour ago: "Jury in Daniel Penny case informs judge that they cannot reach a verdict" [December 6th, 2024] http://x.com/rawsalerts/status/1865075803257512103 According to this reporter on the scene, the judge is not sure how or if he will give the jury instructions on the lesser charges if the jury cannot come to an agreement on the top charge. AJW speculates of that video: "Deadlocked on the manslaughter charge doesn't look good for Penny. It's very possible he gets tagged with the criminally negligent homicide charge if they're sending notes on just the top charge. Sad to see" http://x.com/IamSean90/status/1865077858881749075 I'm not sure that I agree with that. This would depend pretty heavily on their reasons for being deadlocked, and the last two days of jury notes indicate that they're particularly debating on the Medical Examiner's inconsistencies. If the jury cannot decide if the Medical Examiner is lying, then they may default altogether on the logic that the defense witness was correct and that Penny is therefore not at fault. If the judge hears this reasoning from the jury, then he may dismiss the lower charge altogether.
Rugian Member	Fri Dec 06 11:44:00 It's a New York City jury CC. These are the same fucktards who somehow managed not to laugh Bragg's bullshit charges against Trump out of the courtroom.
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 06 11:47:09 One based holdout, or trying to convince a white liberal woman?
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 06 15:36:08 The judge in the trial of Daniel Penny, the man accused of manslaughter in the chokehold death of Jordan Neely last year on a New York City subway, dismissed a manslaughter charge against Penny on Friday after jurors said they were deadlocked. The decision, which came at the request of prosecutors, means jurors will consider only the lesser charge of criminally negligent homicide. It carries a maximum sentence of up to four years. Jurors were not told that prosecutors made the request. Penny has pleaded not guilty. The jurors — seven women and five men — will resume deliberations Monday. They twice sent a note to the judge Friday saying they could not come to a unanimous decision on the top charge of manslaughter. After the first note, Judge Maxwell Wiley ordered them to continue deliberating. Before they began deliberations, Wiley told the jury that it must come to a unanimous decision on the manslaughter charge before it would be allowed to consider the lesser charge of criminally negligent homicide. They were also instructed to decide whether Penny’s actions caused Neely’s death and, if so, whether he had acted recklessly and in an unjustified manner. http://www...eement-manslaughter-rcna183185
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Dec 06 20:51:59 It could be happening :o [Rugian]: "It's a New York City jury CC." For sure. That's been the lingering situation, and it's worrying. But we've now started to get hints about their deliberations, and they're noticing the prosecution's lies. The jury may treat the lesser charge as a consolation prize, failing as a people and showing that NYC is basically a horror hellscape like "Judgment Night", but if they continue pulling that same thread about the Medical Examiner, then the same reasoning will apply to the lesser charges, which is that Neely walked onto that subway like a Kamakazi pilot. He probably would have died even if police were the ones who got to him first, since even cuffing him would have broken him — and, of course, that's assuming Neely would *not* have resisted, which is doubtful.
Cherub Cow Member	Sat Dec 07 10:07:02 This is the full conference wherein Penny prosecutor Dafna Yoran spoke about "restorative justice" and how she reduced the sentence for a black murderer because of "equity": "Changing Lenses: Justice in the Eyes of Science and the People Impacted" [Center for Science and Society; October 27th, 2020] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuoqkpMvjZo I couldn't find any news sources that actually found this full video (they just used the one clip that was going around) and had to do some Google advanced searching, so others may not have realized that there are some even more messed up things in it. One thing is that she says that she realized she needed to prosecute based on her own background... which is to say, she incorporates her historical sense as a jewish person into her prosecution habits. She specifically talks about how she had "holocaust survivors" in her family, which is like... somehow every jewish person ever. So that's interesting. The red flag there is that this means over-prosecuting "oppressors" and under-prosecuting the "oppressed": 53:00 — "Something that really, really bothered me is that nobody was held accountable for what was done to my grandparents and everyone else." So.. that's a vengeance red flag which could easily maker her anti-White, since a psychotic leftist psychological state is often, "[Germans were White ... therefore... all Whites are Nazis.]" If she is looking to prosecute the people who hurt her grandparents (who survived), she she is looking for ghosts, and she will find what is "closest" based on this anti-White prejudice. 54:00 — "What 'holding people accountable' means has changed for me over the years." For what "Accountability" means, she credits NY State Inspector General Lucy Lang as a major influence. As expected: "Inspector General Lang has reinforced the agency’s commitment to diversity, equity and inclusion while expanding its workforce, instituted numerous policies dedicated to enhanced sustainability practices, and prioritizing the mental and physical health of her staff" ( https://ig.ny.gov/about-inspector-general ). In other words, her entire concept of "accountability" is based in DEI, which, again, is over-prosecuting "oppressors" and under-prosecuting "oppressed". From a jewish perspective, anyone who looks "German" would fit the bill as "oppressor".
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Dec 09 01:58:37 Oof. Info about the prosecutor's office just gets worse and worse. Prosecutor Dafna Yoran's father.. ..who propagandized Dafna as a child into ethnic resentment over "Nazis" that she feels were "never held accountable" (even though they were literally killed in the war) and who now intentionally looks for "Nazis" in the faces of people she gets a chance to prosecute in order to balance the scales (this all according to her own admissions in the above link and clipped again here https://x.com/CherubCow/status/1865816764140941593 ).. ..*also* wrote "a book called The Defiant: A True Story of Jewish Vengeance and Survival." http://x.com/jimgoad/status/1865873891593191702 Wow. It's almost like this trial is largely about ethnic revenge. And you can think of the process that puts into power people seeking ethnic revenge. The Regime sells the lie of "equity" via CRT/DEI, they realize that black and non-White hispanic people are responsible for about 93% of crime in NYC and that this ends up reflecting their prosecution numbers (actual statistic from their prosecutorial planning report from 2023 https://www.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/year-end-2023-enforcement-report.pdf ), so what do they do about it? Well, they hire people such as Yoran who are intentionally looking for their ethnic enemies, and because of their own ethnic hatred, they over-prosecute White people and under-prosecute black and hispanic people (which, again, is confirmed from Yoran's own appearance in the above-linked seminar where she justifies how she reduced the charges of a black man who murdered an Asian man). So, in other words, Yoran gets her ethnic revenge and the city *slightly* decreases the prosecution of blacks and hispanics while boosting their White prosecution numbers. This way the city gets to look less "systemically racist", whereas, the simple reality is that criminals just tend to be black and hispanic by NYC's own admission.
jergul large member	Mon Dec 09 06:35:55 The jury is still out?
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Dec 09 10:41:33 Just in! Jury returns: Not guilty on all charges! http://nyp...charges-in-jordan-neelys-death
Forwyn Member	Mon Dec 09 11:22:37 Cheers in the courtroom, Neely's dad dragged out cussing. Truly a cinematic moment.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Dec 09 11:27:18 lol I heard Neely's dad was kind of acting like a bitch during the whole thing. Saw a comment joking that he probably thought the courtroom was a movie theater.
obaminated Member	Mon Dec 09 11:32:20 Free at last free at last.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Dec 09 13:27:28 Good juxtaposition between Penny celebrating with his lawyers in a bar and some dysgenic Neely family members looking for a payday and complaining about "justice" outside of the court room: http://x.com/Uebey/status/1866183706936824213
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Dec 09 13:36:42 Oh look, Neely's family asks for black-on-White vigilantism, thinly veiled threats against Penny, lulz: http://x.com/Tomhennessey69/status/1866203327580811566
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Dec 09 17:52:37 "Feeling bullish on plywood" http://x.com/CptSheppie/status/1866229759119643106
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Dec 09 18:05:56 If you only read the first sentence of this Tweet, it kind of sounds like the NAACP is calling for TND: ----- "The acquittal of Daniel Penny in the death of Jordan Neely has effectively given license for vigilante justice to be waged on the Black community without consequence." http://x.com/NAACP/status/1866177083485073754 -----
Sam Adams Member	Mon Dec 09 20:52:42 Blacks really get butthurt when you stop them from committing crime.
Rugian Member	Mon Dec 09 21:16:53 At least they had the good sense to announce this on a Monday.
jergul large member	Tue Dec 10 05:49:18 Sammy That aint nothing. You should see white people when you stop them from commiting crimes. Murduch just tried to steal a trust for example. Oh the whining involved.
obaminated Member	Tue Dec 10 09:19:06 The ignorant blacks are the ones seemingly try to call for a race war over the death of one of their own. Only problem is this guy was an mentally ill drug addict who was actively threatening people in an enclosed space. Oh, and of course the far left libs also think this has a miscarriage of justice. So ignorant blacks and far left liberals. Likely the same group of people who voted for kamala. They don't realize how out of touch they are.
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