Utopia Talk / Politics / Biden should pardon Trump

Rugian Member	Thu Nov 07 07:55:21 ASAP. * It would show respect to the clear mandate that voters just gave Trump * It would give the next president a clean slate to govern without having all of these useless prosecutions hanging over him * It would end any desire Trump has to make an unprecedented self-pardon * It might (*might*) de-escalate things enough so that Trump doesn't feel a need to engage in the same destructive lawfare that his enemies hit him with * It would make Biden appear that he's putting country over party (a rarity during his four years in office) ---- The merits i think make sense. Which is why Biden will never do it.
jergul large member	Thu Nov 07 08:04:27 *Accepting a pardon is admittance of guilt *Pardons are only for federal charges that will likely be dismissed anyway. *Better if President Harris pardon Trump after Biden steps down for reasons of health. Cracking the glass ceiling would then have an additional ringer effect.
Rugian Member	Thu Nov 07 08:11:58 Jergul Yes, Biden should be spending whatever political capital he has left to get Hochul and other governors to also issue state-level pardons. The pardons aren't just for current outstanding charges; it's for any future charges some ambitious prosecutor will want to level against Trump come January 2029. The point is, he's getting a pardon. The only question is whether it comes from himself or from Biden.
Rugian Member	Thu Nov 07 08:17:41 To entertain the alternative. The next four years clouded by ongoing legal cases against Trump. The president and his administration are constantly besieged by the likes of Letitia James, Jack Smith et al, diverting all of their attention to defending themselves instead of governing the country. The tumbleweeds of the world will be ecstatic about that...at least until Trump finally snaps and says "fuck it, not prosecuting my opponents was my biggest mistake last time, time to correct that with a vengence" and has his officials go after every prominent Democrat and bureaucrat that ever wronged him. America quickly develops a new normal in which
Rugian Member	Thu Nov 07 08:18:55 ...things quickly escalate with each party threatening to jail the other if they win. Multiparty democracy effectively dies and our republic effectively comes to an end. All because the orange man triggers the left so much.
murder Member	Thu Nov 07 08:51:58 Merrick "Do Nothing" Garland is already shutting down the investigations. He doesn't need a pardon. And if he does, he can pardon himself.
murder Member	Thu Nov 07 08:54:32 "To entertain the alternative. The next four years clouded by ongoing legal cases against Trump. The president and his administration are constantly besieged by the likes of Letitia James, Jack Smith et al, diverting all of their attention to defending themselves instead of governing the country." Are you new here? Trump is going to blackmail every state in the union to give him a free pass for all crimes committed.
obaminated Member	Thu Nov 07 09:05:43 Biden should pardon trump in the hopes that trump will pardon hunter.
jergul large member	Thu Nov 07 09:37:30 Seems complicated. Bidan can just pardon Biden jr.
murder Member	Thu Nov 07 09:47:27 Or Biden can let Hunter rot in jail where he belongs.
obaminated Member	Thu Nov 07 10:04:01 The amount of shit joe would face if he pardoned his son makes that an instant no.
Turtle Crawler Admin	Thu Nov 07 11:46:08 Biden won on the idea that he could be a decent president without all the Trump baggage. Their future election prospects require them to figure that out. They really should accept that policy desires have changed and they aren't in the mainstream anymore.
murder Member	Thu Nov 07 13:05:45 No, we should start planning white genocide.
murder Member	Thu Nov 07 13:08:36 "The amount of shit joe would face if he pardoned his son makes that an instant no." And why would he care? What are people going to do, not vote for him in 2028?
tumbleweed the wanderer	Thu Nov 07 13:26:53 Biden absolutely should NOT pardon Trump, he has no remorse (obviously as a clinical psychopath) & still lies about the law & says he did nothing wrong his 'presidency' won't be clouded by ongoing cases, all cases will be halted there was talk about Jack Smith packing things up... hopefully taking actions that will keep the case in hibernation til after Trump's reign (& to prevent Trump from just corruptly scrapping them... but not sure that's possible) hopefully Smith is not ending the cases, make Trump corruptly do it (not that his 'party' will give a shit, despite no defense offered & clear guilt)
Forwyn Member	Thu Nov 07 14:10:10 "hopefully Smith is not ending the cases" Fucking retard still crying about docs lmao
tumbleweed the wanderer	Thu Nov 07 14:19:51 in what way is it not an issue? his stated position is the law let him take any & all docs w/ him as his property (NOBODY but him repeats this easily provably false claim) he doesn't deny taking them, he doesn't deny refusing to return them, he hasn't even denied hiding them from his lawyer when his lawyer said Trump had to comply w/ subpoena & did the search (though his friendly interviewers never ask on that part) it required executing a search warrant to recover them after learning of the hiding completely lawless & unacceptable behavior
patom Member	Thu Nov 07 14:35:33 Biden should take advantage of the Supreme Courts decree that he can't be prosecuted for any act as POTUS as long as he deems it Presidential. He's got a couple of months left.
Forwyn Member	Thu Nov 07 14:39:05 eAsIlY pRoVaBlY fAlSe ClAiM Lol nah. Fucking retard
murder Member	Thu Nov 07 15:25:46 "Biden should take advantage of the Supreme Courts decree that he can't be prosecuted for any act as POTUS as long as he deems it Presidential. He's got a couple of months left." He should, but he won't.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Thu Nov 07 16:41:10 " eAsIlY pRoVaBlY fAlSe ClAiM Lol nah. Fucking retard " show me ANY OTHER person claiming Trump could take any doc he wanted (as -is- Trump's repeated claim)... i'll take even Marjorie... or use an ounce of common sense... why in the fuck would that be the law... or read the fucking law yes easily provably false claim
tumbleweed the wanderer	Thu Nov 07 16:58:38 ...& if disagreeing please state for the record that you think it's possible the current law (that nobody fought to change/fix) is that a president leaving office can take & keep any docs, classified or not, as his personal property (& there was no pinky-swear to keep secret, which would be stupid yet some of you nuts argue it, plus he didn't come close to trying to keep secret, even sharing for the dumbest of reasons)
Seb Member	Thu Nov 07 17:07:37 It's really interesting to see the US aristocratic and monarchical roots finally coming to fruition as it's society matures. Yes there are laws, but they don't apply to the aristocracy. Apple don't fall far from the tree. Maybe in a couple of hundred years you'll mature to a principles based approach: "doesn't pass the sniff test"
murder Member	Thu Nov 07 18:27:44 This shithole isn't going to last another decade, let alone a couple of hundred years.
Dukhat Member	Thu Nov 07 19:40:58 He should've pardoned Trump in 2020 so Trump wouldn't have to feel he needs to run again to stay out of jail.
murder Member	Fri Nov 08 05:17:49 I see that Dukhat has taken a hard turn. "If only we adopted all the shitty policies and attitudes of Republicans, everything would be better."
murder Member	Fri Nov 08 05:21:06 What Biden should have done was hang Trump and all his co-conspirators in the public square before his first state of the union address. He still should.
Paramount Member	Fri Nov 08 06:34:46 It is not too late.
Forwyn Member	Fri Nov 08 19:11:21 "or use an ounce of common sense... why in the fuck would that be the law..." Why wouldn't it be? State secrets are a function of the executive. The executive has unilateral and unrestricted access to every document in govt. They can declassify what they want. They can classify what they want. It's literally how the system was created. Not my fault you're a retard. That you think that the cooperation of non-executives is more important than the status of the executive itself.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Nov 08 22:04:19 he wasn't in office... a) so are you going w/ the 'maybe he secretly declassified' before he left office argument? (a claim he never actually used himself... though he did stupidly claim there's 'automatic declassification' merely by taking them, even though nobody knew what he took, so obviously isn't a thing & nobody backed him on it..)... anyway, that's the least dumb interpretation, so i'll assume so b) are you just claiming this should get him off legally? are you at least recognizing every single person should be shocked & appalled he would do such a reckless & irresponsible thing even if it could get him off on a legal technicality? c) & if that actually was a legal loophole, why did NOBODY try to fix it... why are R's & D's alike all ok w/ Biden exploiting this loophole to take any & all docs w/ him & selling to Ukraine or China or whomever else Comer & the bullshit squad say was bribing him (it makes zero sense to be the law... it -would- be changed, if this was a real loophole... it's not, everyone knows it's not... Trump is guilty & everyone knows it) basically you're fucking nuts on all paths, but some more than others also, secret declassification that nobody ever knows about is the dumbest fucking thing i've ever heard argued, but somehow you people don't see it (& again, he never even claimed to have done so, yet you people STILL argue it) completely fucking obviously the gov't needs to KNOW what's classified & what's been declassified... how does this need pointed out... soooo. fucking. ridiculous. from the gov'ts perspective, he has an unknown quantity of unknown documents (that turn out to include ones of the highest classification levels), absolutely nobody knows about this secret declassification (that he doesn't even claim to have done), yet you accept its crazy for the gov't (after giving him tons of warning that nobody else would've gotten, plus a subpoena that his own lawyers said he had to comply with) would then resort to a search warrant (after seeing him hiding the docs from that lawyer) to recover them & charge him for the incredibly obvious corrupt violations of law (in keeping them & obstructing) fucking nuts. fucking nuts. fucking nuts (& they only charged on about 12% of them, so yeah, they even took into account over-classification & ignored those not of significant national security... the immense amount of time him given to comply plus charging on only a fraction is complete proof it was not politically motivated... they could've raided him immediately & charged on 300+ if political)
Cherub Cow Member	Sat Nov 09 14:13:11 Oh nice. A tumbletard docs meltdown again. Combined with his election meltdown, this is a kind of chunky soup of meltdown.
obaminated Member	Sat Nov 09 14:33:46 I'm just glad he hasn't gone postal. But he is clearly still clinging onto hope that trump will be found guilty still. I suppose once that delusion fades away we may see a much more depressed tw.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Nov 09 19:06:27 but Hillary should've been locked up right? Faux discussing it daily for months no indication she knew she was doing anything wrong, nobody told her to stop & she refused... unlike Trump's incredibly clearly far worse intentional behavior i hope you people's inability to find fault in Trump is limited to just him & not permanent dementia
obaminated Member	Sat Nov 09 20:30:47 I think purposely destroying laptops and cellphones is a strong indication of knowing you've done something wrong and are desperate to destroy the evidence.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Nov 09 22:16:34 ah yes, your constant misinformation the items destroyed were because they were old & replaced, they weren't just all destroyed right after the 'scandal' broke... & i also destroy my old hard drives & her 'missing emails' were recovered anyway, with zero indication she was trying to cover up something... she wanted her personal emails deleted before handing over to the garbage that is Republican congressmen, pretty understandable (also what is your defense to Trump?... there's never a defense for Trump... i asked for it once, & you just hoped for prosecutorial misconduct... but then again, you don't even know what he did as knowledge of the crimes is forbidden to learn, so i guess i can't expect a defense from you... & you don't even repeat the defense he gives, just like everyone, perhaps as it's provably false & idiotic & even if it wasn't provably false, still makes what he did completely reckless & irresponsible as nobody notices as well)
obaminated Member	Sun Nov 10 01:06:39 Yeah, thats convenient. They were old and therefore useless and should be destroyed. It just so happens that decision was made while the scandal was unfolding.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Nov 10 01:28:30 no, it didn't... plus as the emails were retrieved so it makes no fucking difference... also, your argument is still that Hillary should be in prison & yet the Trump prosecution is ridiculous... you are insane he took them, he was told he had to return them, he was warned the FBI would get involved, then he was subpoenaed, his own lawyers told him he had to return them, he hides them from his lawyers to get them to lie about doing a full search... whereas ANYBODY else would have just returned the things immediately
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Nov 10 03:42:56 faggoty bitchboy cope-fest shitlib tumbletard is pretending that Trump *saying* "lock her up" is in the same league as the Democrats *actively* and *actually* locking up their political opponents. This is his level of psychosis delusion. The opposition *saying* is always *worse* than The Regime *doing*.
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Nov 10 03:47:03 Reminder that there's a website cataloguing the January 6th political prisoners: https://americangulag.org/ A recent announcement mentions that the Biden DoJ is in a rush to convict more January 6th protestors before Trump is sworn in: http://ame...efore-trump-sworn-into-office/ From ABC on November 9th: "Given Trump’s stunning election victory, federal prosecutors in the Justice Department’s Capitol Siege Section received guidance this week about how to proceed in pending Jan. 6 cases, NBC News has learned, including a directive to oppose any Jan. 6 defendant’s requests for delays. Prosecutors are instructed to argue that there is a societal interest in the quick administration of justice and these cases should be handled in the normal order."
Habebe Member	Sun Nov 10 05:14:36 *Pardons are only for federal charges that will likely be dismissed anyway. Jergul, These would be, actually they are already dropped. Technically, Trump doesn't need a pardon, because the charges are dropped, but if not, he literally can pick the AG...so. But anyway, you can get state pardons, just not from a POTUS.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Nov 10 11:08:24 pardons aren't just for charges likely to be dismissed, i'm not sure where jergul got that a corrupt 'president' can pardon anyone for any reason as we'll see again... the criminal is supposed to show regret & be worthy of forgiveness so Trump obviously not, & won't give a shit about that when again pardoning his loyalists & for bribes (& yes, real presidents have abused it too) however Trumps federal charges are sadly being ended under the 'can't prosecute a sitting president' rule... hopefully remaining in a paused state, but not sure that's possible, especially once Trump puts in his corrupt AG
murder Member	Sun Nov 10 15:09:54 "the criminal is supposed to show regret & be worthy of forgiveness" This is nonsense. There is no such requirement. A president can pardon whoever the fuck he wants even if the criminal shows absolutely no remorse and makes clear that he intends to do the crime again.
murder Member	Sun Nov 10 15:13:59 "however Trumps federal charges are sadly being ended under the 'can't prosecute a sitting president' rule... hopefully remaining in a paused state, but not sure that's possible, especially once Trump puts in his corrupt AG" There is no pause. They are gone. Merrick Garland should be added to Stone Mountain.
Habebe Member	Sun Nov 10 17:39:53 Tw, I think Jergul was making two seperate points. 1. A prez can only pardon fed charges. 2. They are likely to go away anyway, and they actually have now.
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