Utopia Talk / Politics / russia shoots down another airliner

Sam Adams Member	Wed Dec 25 11:16:42 http://x.c...18742¤tTweetUser=BNODesk Shrapnel damage. Hit a hydraulic line. No flight controls. Classic phugoid cycle of a crippled airliner without elevator effectiveness. Horrible place for a pilot to be. At least most of the passengers are reported to be russian :)
Rugian Member	Wed Dec 25 11:47:53 "Hit a hydraulic line. No flight controls. Classic phugoid cycle of a crippled airliner without elevator effectiveness." So basically a JAL 123 situation? Yeah, oof.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Dec 25 12:06:43 Indeed. And the turks at ermonenville. Alaska off lax. Sioux City. Great work by these pilots to even crash at a respectably slow speed near an airport. The sioux city dc10 got to a similar position. The first 3 did not :( Apperently these guys were trying to control pitch by moving passengers forward and aft.
jergul large member	Wed Dec 25 12:38:15 Lern geography? Kazahkstan is not in Russia.
jergul large member	Wed Dec 25 12:41:15 "Unconfirmed reports from Russian media said the aircraft might have collided with a flock of birds before crashing. Azerbaijan Airlines said flights between Baku and the Russian cities of Grozny and Makhachkala would be cancelled while an investigation into the incident was completed. Those on board were mostly Azerbaijani nationals, but there were also some passengers from Russia, Kazakhstan, and Kyrgyzstan." BBC.
TheChildren Member	Wed Dec 25 12:52:16 da plane was circlin round da airport for hours... doesnt sound it something took it out
Sam Adams Member	Wed Dec 25 13:29:30 "jergul large member Wed Dec 25 12:41:15 "Unconfirmed reports from Russian media said the aircraft might have collided with a flock of birds before crashing." Lol.
jergul large member	Wed Dec 25 15:12:27 The "russia shoots down another airliner" theory is just outlandish. There is no active conflict anywhere near Kazahkstan. Bird strikes have been known to take down planes. A plausible explanation.
jergul large member	Wed Dec 25 15:13:44 The US is the only one that shot down a friendly plane recently. I understand the need for projection, but it sort of needs a plausible basis.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Dec 25 17:05:32 Lol poor jergul.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Dec 25 17:14:19 The plane was approaching grozny, russia, when it was hit by at least one medium or large russian sam. Grozny was being attacked by ukrainian drones at the time. Though crippled the pilots kept it alive for an hour or so, escaping russia but unable to pull off the landing. Brave pilots. Youd have to be to fly anywhere near western russia.
jergul large member	Thu Dec 26 00:15:45 You let your Russophobia blind you. Do better sammy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijan_Airlines_Flight_8243
Sam Adams Member	Thu Dec 26 01:42:41 Lol@jergul and lol@russian trolls on wikipedia. The conclusion that the plane was shot down is inescapable and utterly certain. Questioning it does nothing but showcase your own aviation ignorance. If you were intelligent you would instead claim that it was not a russian missile, since we are only about 99.9% sure it was a russian missile rather than some other missile. Russian trolls will likely begin spouting this(ukrainian cia nazi missile) in a day or two when even the thickest blockheads can no longer deny it was a missile. But since you already got caught lieing, your next lie will be that much less believed, because you haven proven yourselves liars yet again. Lol@russians.
jergul large member	Thu Dec 26 02:14:04 The conclusion is utterly uncertain and absolutely a premature ejaculation. Sammy, this is what your mind is doing: Damn, we shot down our own plane. So humiliating. I am spinning. Well, whatabout, whatabout...Russia? Oh look, they must have shot down a plane too. Heavy Sams are not used to shoot down low flying drones in any event. One of your many mistakes in this thread so far. Be better sammy. The bar is low and I have faith in you!
TheChildren Member	Thu Dec 26 02:59:16 sam if ur story is anywhere near factual, if sam hit it it wuld ve disintegrated in air, fool da plane was circlin over an air near da airport tryin 2 land if it happened like u said, then more like a drone from u know who
LazyCommunist Member	Thu Dec 26 08:49:16 That's a lie! If we would have shot at it the we would have destroyed it!!! http://www...-over-grozny-caused-aktau-cras Breaking news. Exclusive: Preliminary investigation confirms Russian missile caused Azerbaijan Airlines crash 38 passengers were killed on Wednesday after Azerbaijan Airlines Flight 8432 crashed as it attempted to make an emergency landing near the city of Aktau in Kazakhstan. Azerbaijani government sources have exclusively confirmed to Euronews on Thursday that a Russian surface-to-air missile caused the Azerbaijan Airlines plane crash in Aktau on Wednesday. According to the sources, the missile was fired at Flight 8432 during drone air activity above Grozny, and the shrapnel hit the passengers and cabin crew as it exploded next to the aircraft mid-flight. Government sources have told Euronews that the damaged aircraft was not allowed to land at any Russian airports despite the pilots’ requests for an emergency landing, and it was ordered to fly across the Caspian Sea towards Aktau in Kazakhstan. According to data, the plane’s GPS navigation systems were jammed throughout the flight path above the sea. The missile was fired from a Pantsir-S air defence system, Baku-based international outlet AnewZ reported, citing Azerbaijani government sources. According to Russian sources, at the time the Azerbaijan Airlines flight was passing over the territory of Chechnya, Russian air defence forces were actively attempting to shoot down Ukrainian UAVs. The head of the Security Council of the Chechen Republic, Khamzat Kadyrov, confirmed that a drone attack on Grozny took place on Wednesday morning, noting that there were no casualties or damage.
jergul large member	Thu Dec 26 09:00:58 Now it sounds a bit more like it was winged by a smaller short range Pantsir missile. See sammy? Stamina. It keeps you from getting uhm eggs on your face.
obaminated Member	Thu Dec 26 09:29:35 Is jergul declaring victory? Lol. You claimed it was a flock of birds. Jergul when is the last time you made a correct prediction?
LazyCommunist Member	Thu Dec 26 10:00:45 Some birds have very thick bones that could penetrate the thin hull of an aeroplane.
jergul large member	Thu Dec 26 12:07:38 Obam I cannot help you unless you lern 2 reed.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Dec 26 12:20:22 Ready to admit you were wrong and bow down to your master, jergul?
jergul large member	Thu Dec 26 12:28:47 You were wrong about many things. Most passengers were not Russian. A large SAM was not used (a non trivial detail I was quite correct on calling correctly. If sam, then a smaller version suited to anti drone work). Fundamentally, you were wrong to catagorically claim something without evidence. I was never wrong. Because I never claimed anything. Like it costs anything to wait and see.
jergul large member	Thu Dec 26 12:31:21 Here is an example of me being wrong on something btw: I thought Israel was stupidly escalating conflicts with no hope of any better outcome than all the other times it escalated conflicts. The fall of Syria transformed more of the same into something that actually is a big win for Israel. I did not see that coming. So I was wrong. I am just not wrong often. That is why many of you put so much effort into making straw men arguments.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Dec 26 12:38:08 "Fundamentally, you were wrong to catagorically claim something without evidence." There was obvious evidence... the location and shape of the shrapnel holes, the flight path, etc. That you lack the ability to properly process this is now clear.
jergul large member	Thu Dec 26 12:45:41 Sammy, that evidence told you a large SAM had shot down the aircraft. Totally wrong and showing you do not know how anti drone combat operations work. You did not know the flight path either. There is a huge dead zone where GPS suppression was taking place. You overspecified based on flawed assumptions and faulty understanding of what limited information was available. Me? I did not want to have an opinion until we knew more as planes fall out of the sky for many reasons.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Dec 26 14:19:53 I said a medium or large sam. Learn to read. It was either a medium sized sam detonating close in or a larger sam detonating further away. That i cannot tell. "You did not know the flight path either." I knew enough of it to know the aircraft had 2 working engines, living pilots, and no hydraulics. Anyone skilled in the ways of aviation could have told you that. That, combined with the shrapnel damage, the coincident attack on grozny, leads one with the requisite ability to the exactly correct conclusion. Alas, you do not have that ability.
LazyCommunist Member	Thu Dec 26 14:35:24 This thread can now be closed. Much more interesting topics must be discussed.
jergul large member	Thu Dec 26 15:12:56 You did not even know it had approached Grozny. The flight data is missing. At any rate, we will see. Still very early days in the investigation.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Dec 26 16:57:40 Of course i know it approached grozny. The survivors said so. The flight tracking data we do have points towards and away from grozny, all at the correct times to match typical flight speeds. Your excuses are weak.
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