Utopia Talk / Politics / Iraq: Still a shithole

murder Member	Tue Jan 21 20:21:23 Iraq passes laws that critics say will allow child marriage Proponents of the amendments – described by activists as ‘disastrous’ – say they align with Islamic principles Iraq’s parliament has passed amendments to the country’s personal status law that opponents say would in effect legalise child marriage. The amendments give Islamic courts increased authority over family matters, including marriage, divorce and inheritance. Activists argue that this undermines Iraq’s 1959 Personal Status Law, which unified family law and established safeguards for women. Iraqi law currently sets 18 as the minimum age of marriage in most cases. The changes passed on Tuesday would let clerics rule according to their interpretation of Islamic law, which some interpret to allow marriage of girls in their early teens – or as young as nine under the Jaafari school of Islamic law followed by many Shia religious authorities in Iraq. Proponents of the changes, which were advocated by primarily conservative Shia lawmakers, defend them as a means to align the law with Islamic principles and reduce western influence on Iraqi culture. The parliament also passed a general amnesty law seen as benefiting Sunni detainees and that is also seen as giving a pass to people involved in corruption and embezzlement. The chamber also passed a land restitution law aimed at addressing Kurdish territorial claims. Intisar al-Mayali, a human rights activist and a member of the Iraqi Women’s League, said passage of the civil status law amendments “will leave disastrous effects on the rights of women and girls, through the marriage of girls at an early age, which violates their right to life as children, and will disrupt the protection mechanisms for divorce, custody and inheritance for women”. The session ended in chaos and accusations of procedural violations. “Half of the lawmakers present in the session did not vote, which broke the legal quorum,” a parliamentary official said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorised to comment publicly. He said that some members protested loudly and others climbed on to the parliamentary podium. After the session, a number of legislators complained about the voting process, under which all three controversial laws – each of which was supported by different blocs – were voted on together. “Regarding the civil status law, we are strongly supporting it and there were no issues with that,” said Raed al-Maliki, an independent MP. “But it was combined with other laws to be voted on together … and this might lead to a legal appeal at the federal court.” Parliament speaker Mahmoud al-Mashhadani in a statement praised the laws’ passage as “an important step in the process of enhancing justice and organising the daily lives of citizens”. http://www...-say-will-allow-child-marriage
obaminated Member	Tue Jan 21 22:05:41 Old enough to count, old enough to mount Muhammad
earthpig GTFO HOer	Wed Jan 22 11:40:35 "Proponents of the changes, which were advocated by primarily conservative Shia lawmakers, defend them as a means to align the law with Islamic principles and reduce western influence on Iraqi culture." They must be having their own internal back and forth between the left and right... just a few years ago, they made Christmas a national holiday. Google image search "Christmas in Baghdad" for a trip. It's interesting how domestic politics, around the world, moves left towards progressive shit like making a foreign out-group holiday into a national holiday (I'm sure the conservatives of Iraq were saying "oh noes, if our kids see Christmas trees they will get confused and wake up the next day drinking vodka, forgetting how to read the Arabic of the Quran, and believing in the polytheistic Christian trinity!"), and now is moving towards more conservative traditional values such as what is described in OP, concurrently.
williamthebastard Member	Wed Jan 22 11:44:42 What?
williamthebastard Member	Wed Jan 22 11:49:58 Dont you even get that you and sad oddams may have competing views, despite you both being american, and that applies to every single country on the planet? Stupid nationalist generalising ignores that blindingly obvious fact of the human animal.
williamthebastard Member	Wed Jan 22 11:52:18 Man, nationalism, when primitive tribalism was expanded to encompass millions of people, invented just 200 years ago was the stupidest and most harmful invention ever
Rugian Member	Wed Jan 22 12:22:34 "It's interesting how domestic politics, around the world, moves left towards progressive shit like making a foreign out-group holiday into a national holiday" That's quite the set of rose-colored glasses you have there. Domestic politics also moves left towards progressive shit like letting six year olds select their gender, because gender is a social construct.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Wed Jan 22 18:00:57 You're of course correct about that agenda item being progressive rugian, my observation was that that's not currently the way the wind is blowing, in the US or, evidently, in Iraq. I'm unclear on what the rose colored glasses are. Disbelief in gender binary is a south asian and southeast asian thing, with it being a current point of contention in the west(1), however I'm not familiar with it appearing in the middle east. (1) The fact that we see this variance makes it look a whole lot like a social construct btw, though that's not a hill I elect to spend a lot of time fighting and dying on, as it impacts at most a very small percentage of the population, a population that (in the west at least) the adult educated members of have proactively lobbied for it, the thing they state they have, to be considered a mental disorder...
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Jan 23 00:50:40 ep Your view is relativizing and dumbed down. And that is fundamentally the root of the problem. Meanwhile some people are consistent. Islam is the problem in Iraq and it is the problem in Germany and wherever else it has taken root. Christmas is not a foreign out group holiday in Mespotamia, as the Christians of that land had lived there for 1400 years before the Muslims came and started persecuting them. The collapse (most have fled in the recent 2 decades) of the ME Christian population is a documented fact. You people are clueless, morally bankrupt and retarded.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Thu Jan 23 15:37:01 Christians are an out group in Iraq. Present tense.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Thu Jan 23 15:45:59 Wait, you're blaming *Islam* for the flight of Christians... not people, not Muslim people (as opposed to Islam), not any sort of political instability that started almost exactly at the start of the two decade period of time you identified? You're blaming something that happened 1400 years ago for a phenomenon that started 2 decades ago, you're not attributing any of it to a series of specific international events that kicked off round about 2 decades ago (22 years to be specific)? Another point of clarity. "Christians of that land had lived there for 1400 years before the Muslims came and started persecuting them." Please identify the 1400 year period of time (this year to that year) between "Christians were present in the middle east" and "Islam arrived and started persecuting them." Actually, I'll walk that back a bit. There may be some little village in a corner of the Levant that became Christian in 200 AD & that Muslims left alone until 1600. That would be interesting to read about. If it exists. I don't know that it does.
obaminated Member	Thu Jan 23 19:34:36 Prior to the Islamic conquest of the middle east the majority of people living there were Christian, ep. This was a major reason for the crusades.
Earthpig GTFO HOer	Thu Jan 23 21:09:23 Yes. Your point?
obaminated Member	Thu Jan 23 21:16:05 "Please identify the 1400 year period of time (this year to that year) between "Christians were present in the middle east" and "Islam arrived and started persecuting them." I just did.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Jan 24 02:24:32 EP You wrote "foreign out group". This was and is wrong. Deceptively trying to edit that out, does not change anything. "you're blaming *Islam* for the flight of Christians... not people, not Muslim people" Muslims are people who take Islam seriously to varying degree. Islam is the root of the problem, Muslims are only a problem in as far as they take the problematic parts seriously. How did you miss the memo? As an example, completely counter to what you wrote ("oh noes, if our kids see Christmas trees they will get confused and wake up the next day drinking vodka") are you aware that the Iraqi parliament *unanimously* vote yes to making Christmas a national holiday? "1400 year period of time" The 1400 years from when the Muslims started invading and conquering formerly Christian and Zoroastrian lands, institutionalizing 1st class and 2nd class citizenry. I mean I an not even sure wtf you are saying and your exchange with Obaminated has me thinking neither do you. This is a map of the Caliphate roughly 1400 years: http://en....ia/File:Rashidun_Caliphate.svg The overwhelming majority of the population in these lands *at this time* are Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians and some Buddhist to the east. Mesopotamia during the Sassanid dynasty, had large populations of Christians who had been present there since 100 AD. "you're not attributing any of it to a series of specific international events that kicked off round about 2 decades ago (22 years to be specific)?" No, because I know more history than 2 decades. A catalyst just ignites what is already there, the Islamic State was not a black swan event by any stretch of the imagination. Lets take another example. Do you think the holocaust was because of specific events in the 1930s? Or Had there been pogroms before and things and stuff in the late 1900 just acted as a new catalysts to restart something that had been going on for 2000 years? Life for non-muslims in Islamic countries have had ebbs and flows, periods of relative tolerance and then shit hits the fan. You can for instance see this in Zoroastrian communities in Indian, they fled in 2 waves. The early ones right after the collapse of the Sassanids (the Parsis like Freddy Mercury) and then later during the Qajar dynasty (Iranis). Both these waves are due to a flare up in persecution. Like maybe you should read a bit about the Islamization of MENA?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Jan 24 02:38:26 in the early* 1900 correction
jergul large member	Fri Jan 24 02:49:59 EP Interesting observation. Iran is incidentally a leading country in gender realignment throught reconstructive surgery. Essentially, homosexuality is a crime that can be resolved by changing the person's gender through surgery and medication. The blowback you are getting is entirely understandable. Cutie, do you know why there are very few jews in Western Europe pre wwii? Hint: there used to be quite a few jews in Western Europe <3.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Jan 24 02:57:34 "Christians of that land had lived there for 1400 years before the Muslims came and started persecuting them." Not sure, but I think this sentence is bit confusing. Christians have been living in Iraq for 1400 years, a response to the idea they they are a foreign out group. They have been persecuted since the moment Islam came. The way it is written it sounds like they had lived there for 1400 years and then Islam came... But this shouldn't be confusing in context.
jergul large member	Fri Jan 24 04:57:26 Cutie, was not 2nd class citizenry a characteristic of the pre-industrial era? Isaac Goldsmid was incidentally the first jewish person to be granted a heritable noble title in the UK...in 1841. You seem to be arguing EPs point when he draws a conservative backlash from the US to Iraq.
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