Utopia Talk / Politics / AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Rugian Member	Thu Feb 06 22:02:49 A liberal Michigan state representative revealed Wednesday that she underwent a sterilization surgery that would prevent her from getting pregnant now that President Trump is back in the White House. The shocking admission by Rep. Laurie Pohutsky, 36, was made during a rally at the Michigan Capitol where protesters voiced their opposition to Trump’s return to power last month. “Just under two weeks ago, I underwent surgery to ensure that I would never have to navigate a pregnancy in Donald Trump’s America,” Pohutsky said, according to the Michigan Advance. “I refuse to let my body be treated as currency by an administration that only sees value in my ability to procreate.” “If you know people who are questioning how serious this is, I’m going to repeat myself: A sitting government official opted for voluntary sterilization because she was uncertain she would be able to access contraception in the future,” she told the outlet. http://nyp...o-avoid-pregnancy-under-trump/
Rugian Member	Thu Feb 06 22:04:03 She actually destroyed her body and her future with her family out of fear of Donald Trump. Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha
kargen Member	Fri Feb 07 00:59:46 She claims to be bi-sexual so she could have just fooled around with females for four years.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 07 05:04:50 Well, she is in here mid 30s. She should have frozen some eggs by now. That is actually the best move for anyone that can afford it. Particularly in Trump's America. Avoiding unwanted pregnancies seems even more prudent. Freeze egg, cut tubes...profit.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Feb 07 05:57:24 Progressivism, an evolutionary dead end.
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 07 06:10:32 Jergul Abortion is legal in Illinois up to the point of fetal viability (24-26 weeks).
jergul large member	Fri Feb 07 06:28:19 Ruggy So avoiding unwanted pregnancy is not prudent? My argument counters her moral standpoint btw. It is rational of her regardless to sterilize before or after harvesting eggs (cutting tubes does not actuall interfer with egg harvesting later). Ideally, women should harvest eggs by their mid twenties for optional pregnancy later. Nimi Late stage capitalism is the dead end. Kids are unaffordable and the opportunity cost of having them too high. Besides, it is rational to cut the tubing. So unless you are arguing that rationalism is a progressive trait...
murder Member	Fri Feb 07 08:02:33 "AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA we're slavers!" -- Rugian
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 07 08:11:43 ^ wants legal and taxpayer-funded execution of Week 39 fetuses because "muh body muh choice" Lnao
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 07 08:20:46 You know how it's the ardent male feminists who frequently end up being horrific sexual predators? Looking at you murder.
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 07 08:25:30 Jergul If that's the point you wanted to make, you wouldn't have brought up "Trump's America." Are you aware of Trump's position on the subject? He has repeatedly said that he considers it to be an issue to be decided by the states. He's never been a pro-life extremist at any point in his career, and he recognizes that the way Republicans fumbled the ball on abortion after Dobbs makes it a bad issue to go hard-core on. Even if you thought he was lying, he lacks a Congressional majority capable of passing any sort of significant restrictions. So yeah. Trump getting elected affects precisely zero people's existing rights to get contraceptives or abortions.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 07 09:12:52 Ruggy The FDA is a federal agency. Trump can yank any approval on contraceptives he wants. You sure the morning after pill is there to stay? As to trump not being instrumental in abortion restrictions. Well, he takes credit for it, so even he is not disengenious enough to make the argument you are putting forward.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 07 09:14:36 Prochoice is not equal to procrastination Ruggy. 12 weeks is generally long enough to make up your mind to get an abortion.
murder Member	Fri Feb 07 10:53:01 "^ wants legal and taxpayer-funded execution of Week 39 fetuses because ..." Rugians Every single one a justifiable homicide.
murder Member	Fri Feb 07 10:55:24 "Prochoice is not equal to procrastination Ruggy. 12 weeks is generally long enough to make up your mind to get an abortion." That's not your decision to make.
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 07 11:02:42 "That's not your decision to make." It actually is. The state has a firmly established right to ban the act of murder. Jergul You clearly haven't listened to Trump speaking on the issue (to be fair - I get it. It's not an easy experience). He takes credit for sending the issue back to the states. Illinois is an *extremely* Democratic stronghold. This woman's rights to contraceptives and abortion are perfectly safe.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 07 11:04:53 Murder Quite right. But I am happy with current legislation (it actually extends to 16 weeks for non-medical nessesity). The rules we have are determined by parliament. The threshold is making a timely decision. Not terribly ornerous. It is a medical intervention paid for by the State after all. I am fine with a woman flying to Michigan if she wanted to procrastinate past the 16 weeks cutoff.
murder Member	Fri Feb 07 11:08:45 "It actually is. The state has a firmly established right to ban the act of murder." Individuals have a god given right to murder anyone trying to take their lives.
murder Member	Fri Feb 07 11:10:38 "Quite right. But I am happy with current legislation (it actually extends to 16 weeks for non-medical nessesity)." I'm glad that you're happy, but it's still not your decision to make.
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 07 11:11:53 "Individuals have a god given right to murder anyone trying to take their lives." That's...not...uh...do you not know how abortion works?
murder Member	Fri Feb 07 11:14:18 I know how you trying to police them works.
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 07 11:15:21 Yes, the state does police the act of murder. Sorry to be the one to inform you.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 07 11:18:45 Ruggy You should try that argument to overturn natural citizenship. If personhood begins at conception, then the mere act of being born seems rather irrelevant. http://lon...murder-theology-of-the-unborn/ Though ultimately, personhood would clash against the castle doctrine. Even if initially invited into a home, a person can still be told to leave and appropriate force may be applied to ensure the person leaves. A home in this sense being a natural extension of self. The womb is an integral part of self. Can a person evict another from within itself? Well, yes. Unless you think the sanctity of home and person is just so much garbage. So, ultimately, it does not matter when personhood is achieved. A person still does not have the right to live within another person if told to get the fuck out. If you care that much, then advocate for research into fetus fostering outside of the womb. Eviction precludes ownership. The fetus has no connection to its mother after extraction. Then you to can adopt a first trimester person.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 07 11:19:36 Murder Its parliament's decision to make in Norwegian jurisdiction. That is how this works.
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 07 11:30:55 Murder Viability is probably a more appropriate standard that conception. The whole castle doctrine comparison is weird and doesn't really apply here. A parent has certain defined legal obligations set by the state that prioritize the welfare of their children over their own individual freedoms. Making sure they don't die through intent or negligence is one of those obligations Or to use your eviction analogy. Sure, you could argue that a mother should be able to "evict" a healthy 36-week old fetus from her womb - but if the child would be perfectly fine outside of the womb, should it not be an obligation for the woman's doctors to deliver that child alive? I really don't think you're aware of how extreme the American left has become on this issue. They literally believe that the government has *zero* right to pass *any* abortion restrictions at *any* point in the pregnancy. Hence murder's mantra of "not your (read: the government's decision to make." Obviously this is a ridiculous position that is far, far, far outside of the bounds of both civilized behavior and international consensus. But here we are, one of America's two major political parties advocates for literal legalized child murder.
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 07 11:31:10 Er, jergul rather. Sorry jergul
jergul large member	Fri Feb 07 11:49:24 Ruggy That is because you are not terribly familiar with the Empirists. Everything extends from the integrity of self. They are not random philosophers. Their musings are the basis for the United States. Quickening/Viability is an appropriate standard, but it does not really matter when personhood is established. In you example, a self-evident obligation. I know I land about smack in the middle of the US abortion debate. Call me a moderate. No worries. Not the first time I have mistakenly been accuse of murder.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 07 12:20:42 Incidentally, smack in the middle is something I learned here. It is not evident from Norway that a lot of prochoice is far more liberal than what is acceptable here.
obaminated Member	Fri Feb 07 12:55:08 Is anyone surprised jergul would find reason in someone sterilizing themselves over a political figure he opposes?
jergul large member	Fri Feb 07 12:57:53 Yes, amazing how science has a jergul bias. The woman is 35. She should be freezing eggs immediately if not before. IVF is definitely the way forward for her and cutting the tubes has no relevance for that procedure.
obaminated Member	Fri Feb 07 13:02:55 But none of what you are talking about has anything to do with why she tied her tubes you moron.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 07 13:05:44 She tied her tubes because she is worried about contraceptive availability in the future. Is she wrong? You sure the FDC will not yank morning after pill authorization? Anyway, in her circumstance, the best contraception is cutting the tubes.
obaminated Member	Fri Feb 07 13:07:18 Yes, I am sure the fdc won't yank the morning after pill which is only something idiots and teenagers use because they decide to either not use condoms or being on birth control.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 07 13:08:41 FDA*
jergul large member	Fri Feb 07 13:09:33 Point is. You guys thought she self-harmed for political points. Fact is, she did the smart thing for political points.
obaminated Member	Fri Feb 07 13:11:49 No. She literally states she did it because trump is president. It's political moron.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 07 13:14:53 That is exactly what I said. She did a smart thing for political points. You mistakenly thought she self-harmed for political points. Its win-win for her. I fail to see the issue. Unless that is the issue.
obaminated Member	Fri Feb 07 15:04:04 What the fuck are you talking about? At no point does she say she froze her eggs. You keep saying it like it's a fact. She sterilized herself because trump is president. You fucking moron.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 07 15:37:29 Obam She can harvest eggs whenever she likes and is frankly what she should be doing at her age anyway. She has gained the convenience of not needing other contraceptives. Odd that you cannot see she did a smart thing for political points. Kudos to her!
obaminated Member	Fri Feb 07 16:20:58 Lol. She says sterilization jergul. Why are you making up facts ?
jergul large member	Fri Feb 07 16:31:18 Obam Feel free to join the 21st century any time you like. We are waiting for you. Tubal ligation is compatible with IVF. It makes zero difference.
murder Member	Fri Feb 07 16:43:52 "Yes, the state does police the act of murder. Sorry to be the one to inform you." I'm well aware of slave catchers. I'm also aware of the right to use deadly force in self defense.
murder Member	Fri Feb 07 16:44:29 "Its parliament's decision to make in Norwegian jurisdiction. That is how this works." Then Norwegians are slavers too.
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 07 16:45:12 Interesting. So you think anyone who is being held against their will in prison for the act of murder is within their rights to use deadly force against their jailers.
murder Member	Fri Feb 07 16:51:09 It's not a crime to control your own body.
murder Member	Fri Feb 07 16:51:49 Same people crying about having to wear a mask.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 07 16:53:51 Murder You are correct in principle. Principle is just not enough.
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 07 17:01:04 murder Member Fri Feb 07 16:51:09 "It's not a crime to control your own body." Correct. Women are free to abstain from sex, use contraceptives, take the morning after pill, or get an early-stage abortion. If they freely choose not to do those things, then they have opted to carry a viable fetus to term. Basically you are saying that women lack agency and shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. A curious POV from someone who fronts as a feminist.
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 07 17:04:21 You will note that even many pro-life advocates think there should be an exception allowing abortions in the event of rape. Because the woman didn't freely choose to engage in an act that was likely to result in pregnancy. Not her decision, so shouldn't be her consequence. Really, pro-life people should be the ones called pro-choice. You as a woman are perfectly in control of what you do with your body...but if your choices result in a viable fetus, then you live with your actions. Just like the rest of us.
murder Member	Fri Feb 07 17:13:05 "Correct. Women are free to abstain from sex, use contraceptives, take the morning after pill, or get an early-stage abortion." They are also free to have unwanted growths removed from their bodies, and they have the right to use deadly force against anyone who tries to take their lives.
murder Member	Fri Feb 07 17:14:17 "Basically you are saying that women lack agency and shouldn't be held accountable for their actions." I'm saying that you have agency and should be held accountable for your actions. I'm saying that they have agency and the right to hold you accountable for your actions. -
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 07 17:46:58 Women do not have the unique right to commit murder. Sorry. You can attempt to dehumanize a fetus all you want, but if a woman, through her own free will, decides to let a fetus develop to this, then sorry, she made a conscious decision to keep it. http://www...lient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&udm=2
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 07 17:47:21 Murder Does a mother have a legal obligation to care for a one day old baby?
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 07 17:50:14 murder If a woman takes out a mortgage loan on her home, and subsequently decides "nah, I don't want this loan anymore," is she free to stop making payments?
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 07 17:53:04 murder Is a woman free to inject illegal drugs into her body?
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 07 17:55:00 murder Can a woman commit assisted suicide in your state and not risk criminal consequences for the person assisting her?
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 07 17:56:15 murder Do women have the mental capacity to make mental decisions, and if so should they be held liable for the consequences of decisions so freely made, or should they be treated as empty-headed bimbos who can't possibly be held responsible for their actions?
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 07 17:57:43 murder If a woman self-harms and is involuntarily institutionalized by the state, is that a violation of her freedoms and bodily autonomy?
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 07 17:59:27 murder If a woman was to attempt to abort a 39-week fetus but it accidentally came out, bawling and mewling, do the attending doctors have any responsibility to try and keep it alive, or alternatively to kill it?
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 07 18:08:04 murder If a woman commits an act of prostitution, is that a crime?
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