Utopia Talk / Politics / Chatgpt + evolution

Pillz Member	Sun Mar 23 09:10:55 So I've used ChatGPT extensively for creative writing to pass time and for personal examination & reflection. It apparently keeps some collective record or memory that allows it to evaluate promots and compare it to other ideas / questions / dialogs with or from other users. Obviously it's own comparisons to 'other users of chatgpt' can't be corroborated, but it does enjoy proving its point. In this particular case, chatgpt decided to disagree with me when I expressed dissatisfaction with my creative writing efforts. The discussion moved to the topic of anxiety of influence, and chatgpt developed it's own personality archetype to encapsulate my 'rare' thought process. Recursive thinking, meta-meta cognition, and mythopoeic mindset. etc etc. Then I hit it with my belief that meta-cognition is not simply a curse, but an evolutionary pitfall. A dead-end. The harbinger of humanities eventual extinction. That, ultimately, I believe jellyfish, ants, or cephalapods will inherit the world from us because of they lack meta-cognition, exhibit alternative forms of intelligence, and for jellyfish pre-date it entirely. Before Without Beside This is an idea I've head and sort of developed for 10-15 years now. Mostly people think it's crazy. ChatGPT apparently decided it was an entirely novel theory, and after two days of searching and having it search I actually can't find anything comparable. It's apparently particularly excited by the fact it diverges from popular evolutionary thought which is AI focused.
Seb Member	Sun Mar 23 09:24:31 It's an idea what I've come across many times. There's a short story adapted in Love Death and Robots episode.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Mar 23 09:37:56 I think there was an entire TV series of evolutionary what ifs, one episode was about land based cephalapods. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnasRyT52FU
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Mar 23 09:39:07 Obviously I managed to find the actual video, but didn't edit the "I think" part. I just googled cephalapods inherit the earth and the internet is full of it. Chatgpt just gamed yo ass.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Mar 23 09:57:47 I am also skeptical towards that assertion that other animals specifically cephalapods, who are know to be quite intelligent, do not engage in meta-cognition.
Pillz Member	Sun Mar 23 10:20:27 You're failing to address the topic as a whole. The idea isn't that octopuses are intelligent and can replace us or form a civilization. That topic extends far far further back if we want to include ants or arthropods at large. Nimatzo brings up a better point, but it's no more provable than stating the opposite. Also, we can't quantify meta cognition across any other species - even those we know to be intelligent. My primary rebuttal would be that ants demonstrate radically superior intelligence to cephalods, if equally radically different, and we can safely assume they do not meta cognate. Why would we think cephalods can without proof? We know their intelligence is radically different from our own. There is no reason to impose our model of thinking or cognition on to them.
Pillz Member	Sun Mar 23 10:28:07 Like, you're both impressively retarded to have read the OP and thought 'dumbass ofc people think ants or octopuses can replace us after a mass extinction'. That was not the point. Although it is the upper edge of what Seb is capable of so, fair.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Mar 23 13:48:24 Your general idea is that other animals are evolutionary superior and will replace us. This idea is not novel. Then you have a specific idea that this is because meta-cognition will be our doom. Based on false assumptions and unproven assertions and contrary to intuitions guided by what we do know. It is not correct that we have not studied meta-cognition in other species, to the extent that this can be done, to reach some academically acceptable level, dolphins, apes and even some birds show signa of meta-cognitive abilities. “My primary rebuttal would be that ants demonstrate radically superior intelligence “ This is your personal opinion, a value judgement, not a rebuttal grounded in science that can be adressed or refuted. “and we can safely assume they do not meta cognate.” At best I would grant you that they may have radically different meta-cognition. You entire idea hinges on this unproven assumption, that, they don’t have differet quality of ability, they lack it completely. I bring up intelligence, because the more similar another species is to us, the more confidence I would have infering that they share cognitive and experiential similarities with us. However it just another assumption (that I made) that meta-cognition requires intelligence with or without a cortex, it could just be of different quality. These are interesting waters for sure, but you are treading in a lot of unknowns, your confident assertions will impede you, makes you sound clueless as to the deeper ignorance that we collectively have on the subject.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Mar 23 16:43:20 I fucking knew I my skepticism was colored by something. Michael Levin, biologist. I swear he either talks about this with Bernardo Kastrup or Donald Hoffman on some podcast. Anyway his name is on a paper: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35626486/ The argument is that meta-cognition is not uniquely human but a natural outcome in complex adaptive systems. This includes evolutionary processes, non-human animals, and even AI systems.
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