Utopia Talk / Politics / UK will defend itself

Sam Adams Member	Sat Mar 29 06:14:39 Rofl. http://x.com/Telegraph/status/1905278698653127057
williamthebastard Member	Sat Mar 29 06:22:15 This is a direct result of Trump harming the UK with steel tariffs, and this is funny to you? Why does harming the UK amuse you? "Britain’s steel industry has demanded protection in the face of Donald Trump’s tariffs, warning that the 25pc border tax “couldn’t come at a worse time” for embattled manufacturers. He urged Mr Trump “to recognise that the UK is an ally, not a foe”.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Mar 29 06:23:07 One week later: "British Steel has announced plans to close its two blast furnaces in Scunthorpe. It said the “imposition of tariffs” had made the blast furnaces and steel making operations “no longer financially sustainable”."
Sam Adams Member	Sat Mar 29 06:29:03 http://www...cing-council-starmer-two-tier/ Also the UK will introduce a new policy formally codifying anti-white discrimination and giving non-whites lower prison sentences... the UK has been doing this for some time but now will formally admit it, basically.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Mar 29 06:29:18 Lol shithole.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Mar 29 06:48:58 This is why Americans are quickly becoming the most hated people on the planet. Because at least half of them are nasty people that like to harm their geographical and cultural neighbours, the thug gang that is ruining the neighborhood
williamthebastard Member	Sat Mar 29 06:53:07 A country where psycopathic behavioral traits have become normalized and celebrated. To harm someone who has never done anything to you is "strength" in the USA.
Seb Member	Sat Mar 29 07:38:35 This is a Chinese country trying to extract subsidies. Govt should take them up on their offer, buy it from them for £1 - if it's uneconomical and needs to close, fair deal.
Seb Member	Sat Mar 29 07:45:57 In terms of defense though, we are making tempest out of recycled typhoons: grinding up the old titanium alloy airframes into powders for additive manufacturing. Future of warfare will be missiles & drones. Mass steel production less relevant I reckon. Steel mostly for a small number of long lived platforms like ships - but even then you can see how Ukraine manage to wreck the Russian black sea fleet. I'm liking the CABOT unmanned sloop/uuv pairing for controling the north Atlantic.
murder Member	Sat Mar 29 09:27:56 Remotely operated drones can be jammed. Autonomous drones risks mass murder and possibly inadvertently starting a war.
jergul large member	Sat Mar 29 10:08:25 Unmanned platforms have a low threshold for being taken out without major concequence.
murder Member	Sat Mar 29 10:28:59 How does that work when they take you out?
Sam Adams Member	Sat Mar 29 11:33:26 "Steel mostly for a small number of long lived platforms like ships" Lol. Who needs ships when you live on an island? Amazing. Dont forget any reasonably sized buildings, bunkers, tanks, trucks, bridges etc etc.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Mar 29 12:16:26 No industry no logistics and an entire generation of young men youve taught to hate their government. Your going to win all the wars for sure seb.
Seb Member	Sat Mar 29 16:43:09 Sam: How many million tonnes per year do you think the royal navy consumes in newly smelted steel (as opposed to recycled) steel was what I was getting at - if I needed to be incredibly obvious about it. "Dont forget any reasonably sized buildings, bunkers, tanks, trucks, bridges etc etc." If we are using tanks and trucks in defence of the UK, we are already dead. Murder: Mix of both.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Mar 29 20:22:25 Lol seb logistics expert "we dont need steel" "How many million tonnes per year do you think the royal navy consumes in newly smelted steel" The US used 80 million tonnes each year in ww2 saving your ass. Note this is still about what we produce.
obaminated Member	Sun Mar 30 01:15:41 Amazing that seb literally wants to work with a communist country. No wonder we need to cut ties. You guys need to suffer enslavement under communist China for a bit and then we will come in and rescue you.
Seb Member	Sun Mar 30 02:16:21 Sam: The US was never the dominant naval power in the Atlantic/Europe area Sam, until the 50s. That was what you spent beating Japan. And the next European war isn't going to be a predominantly naval affair. We need steel, mostly relatively small amounts of specialist steels produced in arc furnaces, it's not actually necessary for the UK to be producing millions of tonnes of it domestically from ore. Yesterday's wars etc.
Seb Member	Sun Mar 30 02:18:56 "You guys need to suffer enslavement under communist China for a bit and then we will come in and rescue you." Oh you'll all be dead in the nuclear war we start to prevent that if it is ever an issue. But China is literally the other side of the world from us. It's not going to happen.
Seb Member	Sun Mar 30 02:19:34 Also, you haven't got the balls to fight Russia. You aren't going to fight China.
jergul large member	Sun Mar 30 07:09:37 Steel is a global commodity produced by multinational companies. There is no particular need to have them localize in this or that country.
jergul large member	Sun Mar 30 07:10:47 Autarky is so North Korean.
murder Member	Sun Mar 30 08:47:14 "Also, you haven't got the balls to fight Russia. You aren't going to fight China." This is correct. The US is out of the major war business. We only bully small or developing nations now.
Rugian Member	Sun Mar 30 09:25:20 "But China is literally the other side of the world from us. It's not going to happen." Because physical occupation is the only way to effectively subjugate another country in this day and age. What was that about yesterday's wars again?
Sam Adams Member	Sun Mar 30 12:46:29 "That was what you spent beating Japan." Amazing how bad seb is at even the most basic history. 80% of US war effort went to europe, 20% to japan.
Sam Adams Member	Sun Mar 30 12:47:52 "There is no particular need to have them localize in this or that country." Lol jergul telling an island nation that it doesnt need domestic war logistics.
Seb Member	Sun Mar 30 14:52:34 Rugian: We don't need steel for cyber off/deff- which we are actually quite good at. Sam: But most of the steel went to naval buildout and even in overlord you were about 1/3rd of the ships. Re domestic virgin steel production, where is this island nation going to get the fucking iron ore from Sam? If we can't import steel, then we certainly can't import iron ore. Logistical fucking genius this one.
Seb Member	Sun Mar 30 14:54:33 In a scenario where the UK is in a war of attrition and our ability to bulk import commodities is threatened, would it make sense to import iron ore and smelt it, or would it make sense to import iron and steel sand use secondary arc furnaces to get the specialist alloys needed? Which one do you think takes up less shipping capacity?
Sam Adams Member	Sun Mar 30 17:30:37 "where is this island nation going to get the fucking iron ore from Sam?" Have you tried looking in the ground where all your previous iron mines were? Lol retard.
Seb Member	Mon Mar 31 03:55:10 Sam: Logistical genius at work! Oh they are mined out. We produce a tiny amount of specialist ores, and blast furnaces have relied heavily of imported ore for ages.
jergul large member	Mon Mar 31 04:36:44 Sammy Preparing for a NK future for the UK is stupid. You are advocating Autarky for an island nation that has way larger vulnerabilities than steel. So, yes, I guess the UK should bankrupt itself in the name of self-sufficiency on the offchance global trade one day collapses. Seb Probably not mined out. Just not economically viable. Those definitely should be reopened in the name of self-sufficiency. You need to step up. You will never become North Korea at this rate.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Mar 31 06:10:44 "Oh they are mined out." No they arent. The UK is just a terrible business climate. "on the offchance global trade one day collapses." This is about the UK claiming to be preparing for war is it not? We can see by its industrial actions this is a fake claim.
jergul large member	Mon Mar 31 07:25:25 Sammy What is this fixation with Autarky? What PC games are you playing these days? The UK does not need any steel production at all to increase its defence production to whatever it is willing to pay for. The UK's actual plan is to increase defence spending to 2.5% of Gdp (from around 2.2% currently).
Sam Adams Member	Mon Mar 31 10:48:33 So in reality you are hardly going to increase defense spending and still rely on the US to keep your supply lines open.
Seb Member	Mon Mar 31 11:53:53 Jergul: Quite a lot of stuff is iron ore if you are willing. There's a point though where sulphurous coal from deep mines and low grade iron ore is a less efficacious way of creating feed stock virgin iron/steel for specialist high grade steels than scrap. We are long passed this point. From a defense point of view it's stupid. If we can't import steel, we have bigger problems. Economically I'm suspicious that British steel's owners are really being above board. I think they reckon it's more profitable to sell steel they make in China than make it in the UK, and theres merit in keeping residual capacity for industrial reasons. I'd consider hmg buying it and using it to supply defence manufacturing and overseeing the switch to electric. On the other hand that would require an actual industrial strategy rather than hmt staff desperately trying to cut costs to 0 irrespective of outputs.
murder Member	Mon Mar 31 12:38:14 The US is the only nation capable of cutting off supply lines. A few long range bombers can fix that.
Seb Member	Mon Mar 31 15:19:13 Murder: Not really. We've got a tunnel to mainland Europe you'd struggle to get near in a real war.
murder Member	Mon Mar 31 16:31:39 I meant that a few bombers could take care of a naval blockade.
jergul large member	Mon Mar 31 18:09:35 The houthis can cut supply lines. I suppose you meant "anywhere on the globe"
murder Member	Mon Mar 31 18:49:44 Cut supplies to where? Ships can always go around Africa.
murder Member	Mon Mar 31 18:50:39 Also a few bombers could take care of that problem too.
jergul large member	Tue Apr 01 04:25:49 Murder That supply line is cut in the Red Sea. Shipping diverts for insurance reasons. More than a few bomber have been trying to take care of the problem for more than a year.
murder Member	Tue Apr 01 05:07:27 Not trying hard enough. One pass would erase the Houthis.
jergul large member	Tue Apr 01 06:14:54 Nukes are not that great in mountainous terrain.
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