Utopia Talk / Politics / US Army & Marines: "Niggers go home!"

murder rank	Sat Jun 28 11:20:07 New Army Shaving Policy Will Allow Soldiers with Skin Condition that Affects Mostly Black Men to Be Kicked Out The Army is preparing to roll out a new policy that could lead to soldiers diagnosed with a chronic skin condition that causes painful razor bumps and scarring to be kicked out of the service -- an issue that disproportionately affects Black men. The new guidance, expected to take effect in the coming weeks, would bar permanent shaving waivers and require medical personnel to craft formal treatment plans for affected troops, according to multiple service officials and internal documents reviewed by Military.com. Soldiers in need of prolonged waivers may be directed to get laser treatments. Those who need shaving exemptions for more than 12 months over a two-year period could be kicked out of the Army. Units across the force will also be mandated to rebrief personnel on grooming standards within 90 days of the policy's rollout. Most shaving waivers are for soldiers diagnosed with pseudofolliculitis barbae, or PFB, a condition in which hairs curl back into the skin after shaving and cause irritation. The Pentagon may cover the laser treatment, but that can cost thousands of dollars per soldier, depending on the number of sessions required. It's unclear how many soldiers would require the procedure. The American Osteopathic College of Dermatology estimates that up to 60% of Black men are affected by the condition. Laser treatments can cause scarring and changes in skin pigmentation. "Of course, this is racially motivated," one senior noncommissioned officer familiar with the plans told Military.com on the condition of anonymity to avoid retaliation. "There's no tactical reason; you can look professional with facial hair." In March, the Marine Corps rolled out a similar program allowing troops to be separated if the genetic skin condition persists, also raising concerns of racial discrimination. The Army has been in a prolonged recruiting slump since the high-water mark of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, something it started to turn around last year. While Black Americans make up about 14% of the U.S. population, they have accounted for roughly one-quarter of the Army's new recruits in recent years, with that number steadily rising. However, the services have made deliberate efforts to reduce recruiting efforts linked to minority groups amid Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's purge of diversity initiatives during the Trump administration. In 2018, more than 44,000 new recruits identified as white, according to Army data. By 2023, that number had fallen to just over 25,000 -- a staggering 43% drop in five years. The steepest annual decline came most recently, with a 6% dip from 2022 to 2023 alone. No other demographic group has seen such a precipitous fall. Much of the recent recruiting slump was attributable to men being less qualified, or willing, to don the uniform while women have been joining the ranks at a steady rate. Medical complications tied to mandatory shaving emerged as a flashpoint during the military's bumpy road toward racial integration. In the early 1970s, then-Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Elmo Zumwalt launched an aggressive campaign to root out racism and sexism across the ranks. As part of that broader push, Zumwalt issued a now-famous directive permitting sailors to grow beards and mustaches, a move that clashed with the Navy's traditionally rigid grooming codes but aimed to ease chronic skin issues that disproportionately affected Black service members. The primary argument against allowing beards in the ranks has long centered on concerns that they could compromise the seal of a gas mask. But a 2021 study from Military Medicine, a peer-reviewed medical journal, found there's no conclusive evidence that a well-groomed, modest beard interferes with mask function. The publication also noted that only a small fraction of service members operate in environments where chemical attacks are a realistic threat. In Alaska, units are granted wide latitude when it comes to grooming standards, with commanders often waiving shaving requirements during the frigid winter months. Troops are frequently instructed to skip their morning shave or forgo it entirely while operating in the field -- not out of convenience but as a safety precaution. The extreme cold can make shaving a medical hazard, with exposed skin at risk of frostbite and other cold-weather injuries. The Army move to clamp down on shaving waivers follows Hegseth, who has protested shaving waivers, ordering a sweeping review of grooming standards across the services. He has claimed that standards have fallen in recent years and damaged the military. "We kicked out good soldiers for having naked women tattooed on their arms," Hegseth said in a March statement criticizing what he characterized as bad policy decisions by past administrations. "And today we are relaxing the standards on shaving, dreadlocks, man buns, and straight-up obesity. Piece by piece, the standard had to go -- because of equity." http://www...y-black-men-be-kicked-out.html
Pillz rank	Sat Jun 28 11:22:23 They're medically exempt from service. What's your issue here retard?
jergul rank	Sat Jun 28 11:48:04 The clampdown on shaving waivers seems racially motivated. In a more general sense, you have to ask why the military feels the need to unnessesarily regulate a soldier's personal space in the first place. Particularly with a rule that is against best practices in the field. Well kept facial hair easily passes any reasonable grooming standard. Here, accomodation easily overlaps with broader military goals like retaining personnell and having a broad recruitment pool for a chance at being able to reach recruiting targets.
murder rank	Sat Jun 28 12:08:35 "They're medically exempt from service." They are not medically exempt from service. They have been serving. Nor do they want to be exempt from service. "What's your issue here retard?" Racism. -
TheChildren rank	Sat Jun 28 12:55:41 iggas and chinks and beanos and sandniggahs shuldnt join whitey military 2 begin with
obaminated rank	Sat Jun 28 21:20:40 If you have adhd and want to serve you still cant serve. They have a medical condition that bars them from service. They can serve their country in other ways, like marrying their baby mama and sticking around to raise their kids.
jergul rank	Sat Jun 28 22:55:30 And sammy certainly did that!
murder rank	Sat Jun 28 23:24:24 "They have a medical condition that bars them from service." They do now that the white nationalists have taken over the government.
Pillz rank	Sun Jun 29 07:28:35 Makes sense you oppose personal hygiene / grooming standards
murder rank	Sun Jun 29 13:39:22 Makes sense that you'd be intimidated by black men. -
TheChildren rank	Sun Jun 29 13:46:50 why u nighgaz join whitey anglo military 2 do wut muhammed ali alrdy knew wutsup!. no slanty vietcong eva colonized him, but they send u 2 do wut they done across da world u be a fool 2 think u arent being used fool
Forwyn rank	Mon Jun 30 17:53:10 "Not coddling minorities with special treatment is racism!" -jergul, murder, etc "why the military feels the need to unnessesarily regulate a soldier's personal space" Pro:tip: it's not about looks
jergul rank	Mon Jun 30 18:05:53 Do you coddle caucasians with sun screen in Syria Forwyn?
Forwyn rank	Mon Jun 30 18:24:47 Is sunscreen an exemption to service-wide standards? Does it prevent the proper usage of equipment? Is your next great analogy going to be bug spray?
jergul rank	Mon Jun 30 20:04:08 My next great example would be lube. Since you think sunscreen is an ok accomodation for the melanin impaired. Why is ok for a soldier to rub one kind of lubricant all over his body as much as he likes, but not a different kind of lubricant? Clean shaven is not a service wide standard. It varies by branch and by conditions.
jergul rank	Mon Jun 30 20:15:01 Material Compatibility: Gas masks are typically made of rubber or elastomer materials, which can be sensitive to certain chemicals found in some sunscreens. Oil-Based Sunscreens: Sunscreens containing oils can leave a residue on the skin and potentially on the gas mask's sealing surface, reducing its ability to grip the face and create a proper seal. Chemical Degradation: Some sunscreen ingredients might chemically react with the gas mask material, causing it to soften, swell, or degrade over time, ultimately impacting its sealing capabilities. Proper Application and Removal: Even if the sunscreen doesn't directly damage the mask, improper application or removal could leave a residue that interferes with the seal. AI generated, so it must be true.
Forwyn rank	Mon Jun 30 20:48:32 - This isn't as big an issue as you're implying; most skin is covered by standard-issue uniforms. - It's not an accommodation; servicemembers are simply instructed not to allow themselves to get burned in a way that will interfere with duty; commanders often put a general requirement to have sunscreen on packing lists as a CYA; it typically goes unenforced unless someone comes up blistering. - "Clean shaven is not a service wide standard. It varies by branch" LOL. Say that again, this time: "Clean shaven is not a service wide standard. It varies by service" - "and by conditions." Yeah, if you're on a sub or SF. Very, very narrow occupation-related exemptions. - "which can be sensitive to certain chemicals" Yeah, it's also sensitive to fucking sunlight lol. It's more important that it fits. We likely spend more on replenishment procurement than your entire military budget.
jergul rank	Mon Jun 30 22:10:32 So perhaps soldiers could be instructed to shave in a manner that does not interfer with duty? The decision is political is perhaps the best way to put it. Political meddling within the military never ends well. It just is part of the whole lets get rid of minorities in jobs white people dont want to do anyway. Good luck with recruitment and retainment goals. Lol.
jergul rank	Mon Jun 30 22:14:07 Not to draw comparisons to Nazism. But while Germany was in the midst of rapid urbanization, the powers that be decided on a national-romatic goal that Germans should all become homesteaders. Lebensraum was fuelled entirely by this drive. Germany lost a war for something very few Germans would consider doing. Yay, I want to homestead in Reich kommiseriat Ost. Something never said by anyone.
Forwyn rank	Tue Jul 01 16:20:01 "So perhaps soldiers could be instructed to shave in a manner that does not interfer with duty?" That would be clean-shaven. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRZsy39qmaY "The decision (to allow some soldiers to shirk combat readiness) was political is perhaps the best way to put it. Political meddling within the military never ends well." Agreed "It just is part of the whole lets get rid of minorities in jobs white people dont want to do anyway." Is this the same as, "Making women do as many pushups as men is trying to get rid of them"?
murder rank	Tue Jul 01 16:51:04 "The decision (to allow some soldiers to shirk combat readiness) was political is perhaps the best way to put it. Political meddling within the military never ends well." Says some dude still grinding his teeth over allowing blacks and women into the armed forces.
murder rank	Tue Jul 01 16:56:44 They are literally taking in remedial students to fill out their ranks and some doofus is talking about soldiers shirking combat readiness.
Forwyn rank	Tue Jul 01 17:00:34 "Says some dude still grinding his teeth over allowing blacks and women into the armed forces." Only if they require special exemptions and allowances. There are plenty of uses for retards.
murder rank	Tue Jul 01 17:10:16 Like being an apologist for white nationalists. -
jergul rank	Tue Jul 01 17:23:27 Forwyn Make the case if you think well-kept facial hair interfers with readiness. We will use my sun-screen example of the relevance threshold you need to pass.
Forwyn rank	Tue Jul 01 17:25:11 Beards prevent a proper seal on gas masks. Sunscreen does not. Lotion does not. Razor bumps do not.
murder rank	Tue Jul 01 17:43:31 Catching a bullet or a shell or a missile is part of the job, but they'll be damned if they will let soldiers die in a gas attack.
Forwyn rank	Tue Jul 01 18:26:12 "Catching a bullet or a shell or a missile is part of the job" Sure, that's why we spend more than the rest of the world combined to develop advanced protective measures. It's not like we spent a few years getting blown up by IEDs and subsequently made numerous advances in armor, controlled detonation, robotics, identification and countermeasure training for every fucking boot. Nah lol
Forwyn rank	Tue Jul 01 18:29:05 "They don't care if their troops get blown up by mines and IEDs!" You must be talking about Russia: http://en....lve_III_141024-A-LO967-008.jpg
jergul rank	Tue Jul 01 20:13:10 Forwyn Fail on two counts. Firstly, well kept facial hair does not interfer with a gasmask. Secondly, I have established that sunscreen may ruin a gasmask or keep a seal from forming. So you did not pass the "do better than my sunscreen argument" test.
Forwyn rank	Tue Jul 01 21:21:34 "Firstly, well kept facial hair does not interfer with a gasmask" False The effect of facial hair on the face seal of negative-pressure respirators, both half-masks and full facepieces, has been investigated. Three hundred and seventy (370) male employees were fit tested both qualitatively and quantitatively. Of these, sixty-seven (67) had fully established beards varying in length, shape, density and texture. Bearded subjects consistently failed the qualitative fit test protocol. Quantitative fit testing with half-mask respirators indicated that bearded employees had a median fit factor of 12 (8% leakage). A median fit factor of 2950 (0.03% leakage) was obtained on clean-shaven employees. An average two hundred and forty-six (246) fold drop in protection was experienced by bearded employees. With full facepiece respirators, the bearded employees had a median fit factor of 30 (3% leakage). A median fit factor of greater than 10 000 (less than 0.01% leakage) was obtained on clean-shaven employees. At least a three hundred and thirty (330) fold drop in protection was experienced by bearded employees. Results indicate that the presence of a beard greatly increases the leakage through the respirator face seal, and this leakage should not be permitted when employees are required to wear respirators. http://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6702601/ "sunscreen may ruin a gasmask" From your source: "degrade over time". This is not an immediate threat. "keep a seal from forming." Only if slick as shit. You know you're supposed to rub sunscreen in until you can't see it anymore, right?
murder rank	Tue Jul 01 21:54:29 "It's not like we spent a few years getting blown up by IEDs and subsequently made numerous advances in armor" The US Army literally had to be forced to buy MRAPs to protect the troops that were getting blown to hell because they didn't want to waste money buying equipment that would become surplus as soon as that war was over. They were trying to get by with "up armored" Humvees.
jergul rank	Wed Jul 02 08:06:01 An 8% loss of sealing under conditions where gasmasked are almost never used operationally anyway is irrelevant to readiness. Clean shaving under imminent threat of NBC is something troops with beard waivers would do anyway in the interests of self-preservation. Incidentally, "Data show nearly 77 percent of youth between the ages of 17 and 24 are not qualified for military service without some type of waiver" Hmmm, what why waivers for some, but not for all? And what percentage increase would removing hair growth waivers give? Never mind the racist part of it? So, yah. Racism.
jergul rank	Wed Jul 02 08:07:12 Murder Thank God for Ukraine. Never mind that Mraps under combat service conditions get ruined by wear and tear anyway.
Forwyn rank	Wed Jul 02 16:09:30 "The US Army literally had to be forced to buy MRAPs" They cost over 600k, there was bipartisan effort, the SecDef mandated it, and we made over 10,000 of them. So yeah, your point doesn't stick lol. "An 8% loss of sealing" Means unsealed. You may as well not wear it. "would do anyway in the interests of self-preservation." Good, they can do it all the time then. But muh bumps! "why waivers for some" Break down the waivers, or you're just being ignorantly disingenuous. A waiver for past pot use is not the same as an ongoing medical waiver. So, yeah. Retardation.
jergul rank	Wed Jul 02 16:42:57 A waiver for drug convictions you mean. Recidivism rates for drug offences are very high. I get that you will never accept the selective use of waivers is racist. So we will just agree to disagree. Some of us think the US is slipping back into its historic and traditional racist stance. Others do not think that is true.
Forwyn rank	Wed Jul 02 19:23:45 "A waiver for drug convictions you mean." No. This is the problem with a foreigner relying on Google. Most drug convictions cannot be waived. Waivers for pot use are based on specific number of times used and how long ago, harder drugs typically require a waiver if used once. If you smoked pot nine times three years ago, you do not need a waiver. But you do if you smoked pot ten times. This is not the same as having an ongoing medical issue.
jergul rank	Wed Jul 02 19:57:58 So a pothead who self-incriminates needs a waiver is your argument. In addition to those convicted, so have a record the military can check. Who also need a waiver if they are going to serve. Zero recidivism chance here. Habitual drug users are notorious for their clean breaks away from drugs. I agree. This the the problem with an American relying on google.
Forwyn rank	Wed Jul 02 21:25:49 "self-incriminates" Vs. a person who lies about it, is discovered they lied about it in their SF-86 later on, and they are kicked out for fraudulent enlistment. That must be racism too. Or some sort of -ism.
jergul rank	Wed Jul 02 21:52:09 Ok, your potheads are honest folk that most definitely will be getting national security clearance because they totally will be advancing into specialities that require that. Still, why the waiver. Recidivism is rambant and compounded by deployments. Given the zero tolerance leading to secrecy and concealment of substance abuse, then where is your combat readiness for druggies? You so sure they are not using in the military? As opposed to the theoretical chance that perhaps one day a gasmask might be needed before a fellow has time to shave. That is the readiness factor you are so incredibly worried about? Yah, racism.
jergul rank	Wed Jul 02 21:53:47 I will give you that clean shaving did make sense for soldiers before they walked up to the frontline in wwi more than 100 years ago.
Forwyn rank	Wed Jul 02 23:11:16 I think perhaps you're underestimating the ubiquity of pot use among American youth, and growing acceptability/access. Perhaps overestimating negative future outcomes. Little bit of a 80's drug scare Boomerism? Recidivism is of course considered re: waiver eligibility as I mentioned. Much harder to get a waiver for a single use of heroin than it is for someone who smoked pot daily for a couple years. Threshold for activities considered morally grey judged lower, recidivism risk judged high. "You so sure they are not using in the military?" Considering the frequency of drug-testing, it would be ill-advised. I'm sure it still happens, as do discharges. But sure. Let's bar all pot-smokers from the military. ...which will disproportionately affect blacks. LMAO
murder rank	Thu Jul 03 03:02:22 "They cost over 600k, there was bipartisan effort, the SecDef mandated it, and we made over 10,000 of them. So yeah, your point doesn't stick lol." Yes, over the objections of the Army. They were fine with the loss of life and limb.
jergul rank	Thu Jul 03 06:53:04 Murder Well except in the case of wwi tactics reemerging. It is vitally important then that any soldier is always prepared to immediately don a gas mask just in case. Shaving takes like minutes if soldiers were ever again to risk exposure to mustard gas. Very caring when it comes to this eventuality.
murder rank	Thu Jul 03 14:03:49 It would probably take seconds to don something under the mask that would improve the seal. -
Forwyn rank	Thu Jul 03 16:04:17 "Yes, over the objections of the Army. They were fine with the loss of life and limb." The cost of multiple separate bureaucracies. Services had their own infighting; Marines were the ones the experimented with the Cougar; while a retired Marine was the premiere voice against MRAPs being costly and redundant. You had a generation of warfighters, now leaders, that saw the Humvee perform great in Gulf War 1, they saw the evolving threat of urban warfighting and retrofitted them with armor - and it helped. The Humvee was never intended to be an armored fighting vehicle; it was a light, fast, modular troop transport. Overcoming this cognitive gap often takes time and statistics. The MRAP fits a weird stopgap role in between Humvees and armor; it's still transport, but more specifically for a type of warfighting we hadn't dealt with before. I think it's disingenuous to look at this rapid evolution (less than four years of rapidly shifting warfare) with an overly simplistic bird's eye, hindsight view and say, "Yeah it's because no one cares if privates get blown up", especially when it's only being used as a lever against other troop safety measures. "It would probably take seconds to don something under the mask that would improve the seal." Sure, you can probably come up with a rubbery ski mask-ish apparatus. Now bitch about the material composition, cost, ease of transport, shelf life etc. because it's another thing you have to purchase and pack with MOPP kits. Now propose that to a panel of Boomers in each service that will say, "But can't you just shave?" "Well except in the case of wwi tactics reemerging." This from a nation that could probably sustain, what, 500 troops in a theater such as Iraq? With five or ten Leopards and Pasis? Go back to fishing.
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