Utopia Talk / Politics / Black Hawk down. 36 spec ops killed.

Paramount rank	Mon Nov 03 23:28:14 Ukraine’s Suicide Helicopter Missions… Why? Ukraine’s Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) has conducted two high-risk air assault operations using US-supplied UH-60A Black Hawk helicopters in the Pokrovsk sector of Donetsk Oblast amid intense Russian advances. Pokrovsk, a key logistics hub, has been under siege for over a year, with Russian forces controlling ~80% of the city by late October 2025 and have now encircled the Ukrainian forces that remain in the area. The missions, overseen by GUR chief Kyrylo Budanov, tried, and failed, to insert elite special forces into contested or Russian-claimed areas. The key question is why? Ukrainian sources claim the feckless operation was to disrupt enemy positions, clear strongpoints, and restore supply lines, but this is nonsensical. The first mission, which was launched the night of 28 October, dropped 11 GUR commandos in an open field northwest of Pokrovsk’s industrial zone. Video showed troops disembarking and fanning out rapidly. Insertion was at night/low visibility to minimize detection, but Russian reconnaissance drones spotted the low-flying helicopter and destroyed the 11 commandos. The subsequent mission, which was launched on the night of 30 October using two Blackhawk helicopters, inserted two groups (total ~20–24 troops) in the same general area and they suffered the same fate as the first group. To understand the purpose of these two failed missions you need to understand the relationship between the GUR and the CIA. Ukraine’s Main Directorate of Intelligence (GUR, or HUR in Ukrainian), the military intelligence agency under the Ministry of Defense, has developed one of the closest partnerships with the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) among any foreign service. This relationship, forged in secrecy after the 2014 Maidan Revolution and Russia’s annexation of Crimea, reportedly transformed the GUR from a Soviet-era remnant infiltrated by Russian agents into a sophisticated operator renowned for audacious strikes against Moscow. The CIA invested tens of millions of dollars in rebuilding the GUR, providing training, equipment, and secure facilities, while sharing intelligence that proved critical during Russia’s 2022 full-scale invasion. Former U.S. officials describe it as a “historic opportunity” to counter Russia, with the GUR becoming “our little baby.” While the Western media reports claim that this operation was supported by NATO, I think the more likely explanation is that this was a joint-CIA-GUR operation to extract CIA paramilitary officers who were operating with Ukrainian forces in and around Pokrovsk. I don’t think we are talking about junior CIA personnel… I think there are at least a couple, if not more, senior CIA paramilitary officers who are now trapped in Pokrovsk. Given that Western reports emphasize that these two failed missions were carried out at the direction of Budanov, the Chief of the GUR, and that Budanov works with the CIA rather than the US military or NATO, this has all the trappings of a CIA op. Attempting an extraction twice in three days is but another indicator of the desperate situation confronting the Ukrainian forces and their Western advisors in Pokrovsk. https://so...icide-helicopter-missions-why/
LazyCommunist rank	Mon Nov 03 23:52:51 This author never disappoints! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_C._Johnson Johnson defended Russia from allegations that it interfered in the 2016 presidential election.[19] Since Russia launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022, Johnson has made regular appearances on Russian media and expressed support for its war effort. He has been cited hundreds of times in pro-Kremlin Russian media, including Izvestia, Sputnik, and RIA Novosti.[20] In March 2025, Johnson was one of three media personalities invited to interview Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov in Moscow.[21]
Sam Adams rank	Tue Nov 04 00:34:46 Lol
Pillz rank	Tue Nov 04 03:39:25 Watched a video on this yesterday I think? Saturday perhaps? Not sure they all died. 1 confirmed insertion and footage of two blackhawks. No reason to believe in ant CIA connection AFAIK. Just AFU or GUR rather being somewhat intelligent for a change and taking advantage of the lack of anti air to slip troops in without using the roads or risking the long march on foot in a zone where nobody controls any space, just random buildings and shit. Was a solid effort I guess but totally futile.
Pillz rank	Tue Nov 04 03:53:14 The Ukrains entire front line is at risk of collapsing. They aren't even really buying time at this point, it's more like time is just ticking down. Every time they have a chance to do the right thing tactically or logistically or bureaucratically, they fail. 3.5 years later and the collapse of Pokrovsk is just like the collapse of the veru every other city.
Sam Adams rank	Tue Nov 04 04:18:17 ”The Ukrains entire front line is at risk of collapsing.” Haven't you said that every day for the last 1000?
Forwyn rank	Tue Nov 04 05:26:42 To be fair, when lines collapse...historically, it happens extremely quickly. Villagers sitting 20 miles inland from the frontline will be caught up in a theoretical collapse.
Pillz rank	Tue Nov 04 05:49:15 It has collapsed multiple times, although right now they're in a particularly bad spot up north and in Donbas, and it'd be unfortunate if kupyansk fell this winter too. But look at a map from 2023 to present. That's.... What the result of a collapsing front like... Repeatedly. For years. 'Front line collapsed' =! March on Kiev It means retreat to the next defensible positions. Eventually that's gonna be the river...
TheChildren rank	Tue Nov 04 15:46:26 da thingz i hear online is crazies nottin get through russian air defense. da socalled suckie s400s rekts everything. there a reason u dunt hear bout them wunderweapons f16, himarsmans, attack ms and stormie shadowz and shit. they r all useless. just like them abrams, and jeepz...all worthless no surprisems dat da black hawks r anotha useless junk
Pillz rank	Tue Nov 04 21:50:25 So, Ukranian cope is failing. They seem to generally acknowledge the dire situation they're on in Donetsk. Some people think they can save the Donetsk front with a sweeping combined armies assault to break the Pokrovsk cauldron and worsening situation in Konstin-whatever its called. I hadn't realized how badly the situations around Kupyansk and Lyman had deteriorated in the past few months. AFU troops average like 160 days between rotations as per Ukrainian telegram channels... A large reason for this is the absolute fucking mess of chain of command in the AFU, which has undergone like 3 major changes to its organizational structure and each only serves to make the system less coherent in practice....
obaminated rank	Tue Nov 04 22:51:11 Well, pillz has said Ukraine will fall "soon" every day for 3.5 years. If he keeps at it he may eventually be right.
jergul rank	Wed Nov 05 00:12:52 Brigades are too squishy for sustained combat, hence the attempt to reform as corps. Technically 3 brigades, but with about the strength of a division. However, manpower resources have been channeled into assault units. My take is that it is an attempt to Wagnerize the Ukrainian military. Assault by mostly poorly trained fodder, but supported by highly trained specialists telling them where to go. Syrskijs idea. It has not changed much. On a day-to-day basis according to Suryak maps, Ukraine counterattacks to take about 10% of what Russia takes every day. But it may disrupt scheduling. The downside is infantry starvation in regular units along with a significant loss of hardware (battlefield taxis, arty and tanks).
jergul rank	Wed Nov 05 00:15:49 Ukraine cannot fall soon. What can happen is Ukraine will be forced to use its strategic space and fall back slowly instead of fighting over every small hamlet. That will not be great because the territorial losses are likely to be permanent for the most part.
Pillz rank	Wed Nov 05 03:16:31 While I may be a bit hyperbolic, I've been correct at every turn. Wars take a long time, even when one side is clearly losing. Also, it's less about organizational units and more about how command structure works. A brigade answers to their corps, but also to the commander of that front, and also to the command of the oblast, and also to high command. And no two sources of orders or deployment issue the same directives.
Rugian rank	Wed Nov 05 03:24:49 "I may have been early, but I'm not wrong." IT'S THE SAME THING PILLZ
Pillz rank	Wed Nov 05 03:31:46 You expect the entire country to fall at once I guess? Look at deepstate maps if you want the best case scenario - the front line is just a monthly cycle of minor to medium sized collapses. Eventually like jergul said, this will mean they withdrew rather than fight over every settlement. There I no early - just unspecific. Not my fault you all grew up with 'mission accomplished' and think wars consist of painting a map and then fighting city by city for 15 years after you said you won
Pillz rank	Wed Nov 05 03:42:18 Pro Ukrainians confuse imminent with immediate, and fail to contextualize the situation against the reality of war. But sure. Moscow by 2030 guys
Rugian rank	Wed Nov 05 03:43:37 Meh, I mostly just wanted to repeat a movie quote that this conversation reminded me of. Carry on
Hrothgar rank	Wed Nov 05 07:57:31 Russia lost this war by Summer of 2022. Everything since is just their government being unable to admit the abject failure of the initial war goals due to it being a death sentence for them to do so. Ukraine is at less risk than ever of losing independence and is on the path to joining the EU. Russian territory is increasingly bombarded with costly Ukrainian strikes than ever. Russia is incapable of achieving air superiority over Ukraine. The Russian propaganda machine is in full force for the last number of years with the idea that taking the eastern/southern edges of Ukraine is a victory. But it's certainly not even close to what was explained or expected as victory goals in March of 2022.
jergul rank	Wed Nov 05 09:41:45 Hrothgar Russia has expanded its demands in september of 2022 to include territorial annexation, but has otherwise consistently demanded the same things. Neutrality, armament limitations, language and culture protections, denazification. So it might fail at those goals, but the goals themselves remain in place with additional territorial demands as mentioned. That it wanted to reach it goals by way of a coup de main is fair enough, but nothing much else has fundamentally changed. Not on the battlefield either to be fair. Russia is hoping attrition will work when compounded by destroying dual use things like energy, sewage and clean water (dual use as established by Nato since its intervention against Serbia, then later in Iraq. Never mind Gaza). Who knows how it will play out beyond everyone knowing Ukraine cannot sustain a war at this level forever. But then, Ukrain can always just play for time by more timely retreats to preserve its manpower. Goodness knows Ukraine has enough land to fall back on. So, yes, I am not particularly convinced by your pitch. We will have to see who is the greatest loser. Ukraine has first place for sure. But we have to see how it goes with the US and the West too. I trust you are following US and EU debt accumulation rates. Social cuts that have followed may end up being nation breaking. We will see. The only thing we know for sure is that Norway has won this war. Ludicrous the premium we have been getting on our natural gas sales. All bow to the mighty oil fund :).
Pillz rank	Wed Nov 05 13:17:01 Hrothgar is why gay men with AIDS shouldn't post about war
Sam Adams rank	Wed Nov 05 16:11:26 So pillz by collapse you actually mean tiny retreat.
Pillz rank	Wed Nov 05 18:22:40 I think deepstate lists Russian gains at 6100km² this year? But tiny, sure. Just weekly tiny retreats w/ 80-90% casualties to retreating units. Lol Americans really suck at this
Pillz rank	Sat Nov 08 02:18:29 Ukraine has committed to holding... The pocket is effectively sealed, and fighting is scattered building by building clearing by both sides in Pokrovsk, and myrnohad (sp) is accordingly also sealed with it and fighting the increasing on its eastern side. Seems soldiers are trying to retreat to mrynohad. @hrothgar Lol k
Pillz rank	Mon Nov 10 12:49:18 Pokrovsk is Russian now. Myrnohad(sp) is operationally encircled, fighting on the eastern side of the city continues. Pokrovsk is the largest city to fall since summer 2022. Kostyantynivka is even bigger and Russia is steadily encroaching on it. Siversk, kupyansk, and hulyaipole all looking bad for the AFU.
Pillz rank	Mon Nov 10 13:53:33 Siversk is particularly important, as it covers the north eastern approach to Kostyantynivka and the eastern approach to Lyman... Its also the longest held Ukrainian position on the front line - I believe the last settlement left from 2022. The fall of Siversk would almost certainly mean the fall of Lyman shortly after. This would basically mean the line of cities (kostyantynivka, druzhkivka, kramatrosk, and slovyansk) becomes the direct front line... And all 4 cities will be supplied by just 2 major roads.... Both of which Russia is posed to disrupt (the fall of Pokrovsk and Myrnohad will mean that the Russian front line is to the *west* or behind the Ukrainian cities) - the first road is in this direction.... And accordingly the fall of Lyman and svyatohirsk would mean at least fire control over the 2nd, northern approach. This probably is gonna be the composition of the Donbas front by fall of next year. I believe the russia, that is the 'ideal' situation, and likely will signal a change in focus to other sectors along the front. They can't realistically take 4 major cities, but they can tie up huge amounts of AFU troops defending them while they envelop them operationally. Izyum, too, at risk in the next year, as the Lyman direct and kupyansk directions will be used to envelop it as well.
Dukhat rank	Mon Nov 10 18:42:05 Can't believe anything Pillz says. CherubCow-levels of cope
Pillz rank	Mon Nov 10 20:59:03 "Pokrovsk is the largest city to fall since summer 2022." Since bakhmut, my bad. That took so long I forgot about it
Pillz rank	Thu Nov 13 06:18:15 Vagaue updates: Huliaipole front has collapsed on the eastern side. Russia pressing to the south. Assault on Huliaipole probably sooner than later, as a result. Russian MOD claims control of eastern kupyansk. Ukraine doesn't appear to be disproving this, but Russia isn't proving it either. Kupyansk not going well for Ukraine. Siversk probably going to be a new cauldron soon, as russia is attempting to swing around it. But the front around Siversk is pretty solid so idk if this goes anywhere. Similar situation for Lyman. Pokrovsk is basically over, and it's gonna begin a cascade soon afterwards. There aren't really any cities after Pokrovsk and whatever is to the north of it. Just hamlets and farms and very flat, unforested terrain. It is effectively indefensible. Whatever advance russia makes in that direction eventually will be relatively slow, because they don't want to use armour and want to draw out the AFU. But it's gonna be a steady roll to finish the rest of Donetsk oblast and isolate the string of cities. The next two years are gonna be interesting. A lot of big cities on the front line soon. Not really sure how Russia takes 3-4 big cities, but also do they *have* to? Idk. I feel like a Syria approach would be better, especially with FVP drones acting as a force multiplier to prevent breakouts etc. Just transport everyone peacefully out of the cities...
Sam Adams rank	Thu Nov 13 07:13:10 Meanwhile Russia increases its draft criteria yet again, gas is becoming expensive as Ukraine blows up more and more refineries, inflation is up, public opinion in Russia is turning against the war(took those retards long enough)... Ukraine has a lot more farmland to lose than Russia has time at this rate.
TheChildren rank	Thu Nov 13 08:57:40 was da choppa also made out of cheese?
Pillz rank	Fri Nov 14 04:22:12 https://youtu.be/rKsCp8WwmQo?si=JIyCdQ5Gp98etMr8 Mark Rubio confirms anti-air sent to the Ukraine has a life span of 1-2 weeks.
Pillz rank	Mon Nov 17 02:01:11 Sam will like this: There's a video of a Russian chief medical officer from the 27th? mechanized infantry I think, saying casualties amongst storm troops is 80-90% and officers ask for bribes if soldiers want to be reassigned. Besides that the same news as always on the same fronts.
Pillz rank	Mon Nov 17 06:10:40 Wanna note that Russia has made extensive use of fog cover the past week, allowing them to both recon with assault squads and move in troops and equipment into captured areas. It seems fog is the best counter to FPV drones, and that the AFU is overly reliant on them
Pillz rank	Fri Nov 28 04:30:47 It is going very badly in Pokrovsk (gone w/ some hold outs) and Myrnohad. Pokrovsk has fallen and Myrnohad is now encircled. Physically or operationally, unclear, but videos of the roads leading to/from Myrnohad show 77+ wrecks. So not great. Hulyaipole is about to be assaulted directly. Konstantinisvka is being closed in on. Half of Siversk has been taken. Its almost certain that Kupyansk has fallen completely, as neither side is reporting fighting in the city but we know Russians are striking from the direct of the city into the Ukraine flank/rear. So the front is gonna be moved back considerably by spring, it seems, and Zaporizhzhia is likely in real danger for 2026.
jergul rank	Fri Nov 28 13:13:35 Kupyansk is still operationally contested, no matter what side has small groups of soldiers huddling here or there. It currently represents more a bulge in the line than it does a base to strike into flanks and rear. Ukraine has adapted its stance to emcompass a Russian presence in Kupyansk. Ukrainian counter attacks continue with Syrskys variation of Wagner assault troops (poorly trained conscripts directed to attack by a core cadre of experienced soldiers). We will see what happens when those are withdrawn.
jergul rank	Fri Nov 28 13:20:56 The big deal is Ukraine's gradual loss of operational mobility. It has suffered very heavy losses to its fleet of battle taxis (armoured vehicles of various types that have transport capability). Mechanized degrades to motorized, motorized degrades to infantry on foot. The same is significantly less true for Russia. It expands into advances with a mad max variation of everything with wheels and tracks. At this point, there is no doubt armored production of various types is significantly outpacing losses.
Pillz rank	Fri Nov 28 18:47:37 Kupyansk may be contested, but all indications suggest russia controls the city on both banks of the river. And not contested for long, as the AFU is down to one bridge and otherwise cut off on the eastern bank. Assuming said bridge still exists anyways
Paramount rank	Fri Nov 28 19:01:29 ”Pokrovsk has fallen and Myrnohad is now encircled. Hulyaipole is about to be assaulted directly. Konstantinisvka is being closed in on. Half of Siversk has been taken.” Fake news. If you read the real news, in Britain and Germany, you will get the truth that Ukraine is mopping up the remaining Russian soldiers in Pokrovsk and Siversk, and Russia is on the ropes. And if we send more money to Ukraine then they will win.
Hrothgar rank	Sat Nov 29 17:54:58 I can drive the distance Russia has gained in this area from the previous mighty conquest of the ruins of Avdiivka and the current attempt at Russian meat swarm conquest of the ruins of Pokrovsk in about 7-8 min going typical commuting speeds on a highway lol. And besides just the measurement of land area, all that conquered land consists of after "conquest" is empty, completely unusable ruins. The utter ignorance it takes to claim this deadly, destructive slog is going well for Russia is complete propaganda infused delusion. It's an been an utter disaster for Russia in every measurable way.
Hrothgar rank	Sat Nov 29 17:56:02 Oh, and it's worth point out that the time between the fighting for these two mentioned ruins of cities has been nearly 2 years now.
Pillz rank	Sat Nov 29 18:32:34 You are perhaps dumber than wtb.
jergul rank	Sat Nov 29 18:32:49 Hrothgar That is largely irrelevant if Ukraine cannot sustain the war. But it does indicate why Russia would prefer Ukraine to withdraw instead of fighting over the remaining parts of the 3 oblasts it currently demands. As a cautionary note: Russia can always demand more territory than it controls. In its mind, willingness to compromise involves not demanding Odesa and Mykolayev. Though factually, a lot of the conquered land is unscathed save for Ukrainian efforts to damage it. 17% of Ukraine's territory was taken without much fighting on it at all.
Pillz rank	Sat Nov 29 18:37:49 Hrothgar is representative of the lowest possible echelon of educated Americans. Just smart enough to read, not smart enough to understand what he's read.
Pillz rank	Fri Dec 12 18:45:26 Siversk is now under Russian control Pokrovsk is now under Russian control Myrnohad is in its final days To the east of Pokrovsk and Myrnohad, Russia claims to be clearing out Hryshyne but there's no evidence for this Huilyapole poses an interesting challenge to take, as the approach to the city is open in the south - meaning any advance in that direction is impossible. Russia has been trying to flank from the north east but the Ukrainians are holding. Fighting is still taking place in the city, but without the ability to operationally encircle it, it will never amount to anything. Even if Russia made headway, it'd be vulnerable counter attack just like Kupyansk. Ukrainians are doing their level best to hold north of that sector and in Dnipro - either pushing Russia out of, or re-occupying, several settlements in Dnipro. In a major blow to Russian PR, the Ukrainians have retaken the western half of Kupyansk. The commitment to hold the Dnipro front and retake Kupyansk signals to me that the AFU is primarily interested in preventing Russia from advancing outside of Zaporizhzhia/Donbas. With peace talks underway, this makes a lot of sense. Russia would be even less inclined to a cease fire if they were making significant headway in Kharkiv. Although, conversely, Russia has made gains along the border east of Kharkiv city. This would be vital to their efforts to move west from Kupyansk and capture the eastern part of the oblast. Overall excellent job by Ukraine to find the backbone to hold, as Russia pushing last Huilyapole or Pokrovsk would amount of to eventual, assured concession of huge swaths of land and fighting at the gates of Zaporizhzhia (the city) and Pavlohrad. Footage front both sides shows just how hellish the front line has become to advance in, with everything as far as they eye can see covered in fiber optic wires from FPV drones. Still, it is winter, and infantry advance primarily on foot. Most FOBs are 5 to 10km from the front. And for the most part, it would appear that Russia is not trying to hold settlements in those forward 'grey zones'. Shall see what sort of effects counter attacking in the winter has on AFU morale, and what spring brings when the next batch of Russian conscripts arrives. A 5 to 10km march over farm land, dodging FPV drones, and bogged down by endless fibre optic cables, all during the winter... And that's just one way... Probably not worth it but it stalling the advance and they weren't having better luck om defense so I guess it maths.
jergul rank	Fri Dec 12 20:01:43 Russia has broken through from the East and seems to control at least 25% of Huilyapole. The problem both sides face is that properely holding defensive lines is prohibatively difficult, so both are operating with thin positional screens that are vulnerable to attacks, but by the same token, also vulnerable to counter-attacks. I dont think Syrskijs assault units (Wagner imitations as mentioned) are a bad idea. I seem to disagree with most people on that. But yes, if you cannot man defensive positions properely, then the only recourse is counter-attacks.
Sam Adams rank	Fri Dec 12 20:54:26 Net positive for the world. So many Russians are being chewed up for these tiny gains. Fewer retards.
Pillz rank	Fri Dec 12 21:06:05 Its definitely a better stalling maneuver than staying still, sure. But it's arguably even less sustainable in the 'long term'. Soldiers that survive on defense are re-usable assets. Soldiers that survive a counter offensive or skirmish are much less likely to make it back, and its a lot more taxing on them. AFU claims russia has moved (an unknown but presumably 'large' amount of) armour in the Pokrovsk direction. So we may see new anti drone counter measures deployed if they attempt some sort of mechanized advance? Pokrovsk is sort of on the current limit of effective FPV drone strikes, so they could be purely defensive. Dunno
jergul rank	Fri Dec 12 23:18:48 Sammy Less than you think. Slightly more than 5% (16k) of the 300k mobilized in october-22 have been killed according to mediazona. A pro-wester casualty curator. Turns out the side getting JDAMs dropped on them dies more. Funny that.
jergul rank	Fri Dec 12 23:19:27 JDAM equivalents (aka FABs), since I have a feeling someone is going the be autistic.
jergul rank	Sat Dec 13 10:48:34 Pillz Armor does effectively soak drones if properely protected. We are back to IFVs and APCs capable of doing their jobs as taxis and close support that lessen infantry losses. Russia has used the last year at least to rebuild IFV/APC stocks delivered to military units. But for conditional use. There is no point to a column advancing into thin lines of Ukrainian defences and stopping. There needs to be 5-10 km depth advance potential.
TheChildren rank	Sat Dec 13 16:12:01 10:1 is wut ppl like douglas been sayin they been right bout everythin else on this war so far... is da slopfunda guys who r fafo also funny how no media mentions kursk...dat shit will go down history as one of da most disastrouses moves ever in modern warfare
Daemon rank	Sat Dec 13 17:10:11 "Slightly more than 5% (16k) of the 300k mobilized in october-22 have been killed according to mediazona." How does this matter if it is 150k+ total? What do you wanted to express with this BS metric?
Pillz rank	Sat Dec 13 17:27:26 What's the purpose behind your metric? War costs lives. Russia understands and accepts this. Europe does not. That is why your children and grandchildren will not speak German.
Pillz rank	Sat Dec 13 17:31:22 Saw a meme about how the greatest tragedy of the war is that we're forced the tanks and ifvs to cover up with hijabs
Daemon rank	Sat Dec 13 17:41:04 "War costs lives. Russia understands and accepts this." That's why Russia started this war and let's its people die in masses. "That is why your children and grandchildren will not speak German." I have no children and I don't care what language people speak here in 100 or 1000 years. It only matters that they are not as dumb as you.
Pillz rank	Sat Dec 13 17:56:07 Your stupidity and self hatred know no bounds
Daemon rank	Sat Dec 13 18:07:19 Isn't it self hatred if people go into war and die so that other people that they don't know speak the "same" language as themselves in 100 or 1000 years? Isn't it self hatred if you give up your own life for a leader like Putin?
Pillz rank	Sat Dec 13 18:12:27 Nothing you just said is coherent. You're throwing a tantrum because your swinger parents taught you every life is more important than yours
Daemon rank	Sat Dec 13 18:19:52 "taught you every life is more important than yours " I'm not the one throwing my life away so that the name of my leader will be praised in the history books. Btw. you are the self hating Canadian that wishes he was born in a second world shithole like Russia, not me.
Pillz rank	Sat Dec 13 18:36:54 You are advocating for the deaths of countless Ukrainians and a permanent failed state because you have been propagandized to be fanatically opposed to Russia. Why is that? What is your motivation for your long held, absolutist, anti-Russian position? If you want to stop Putin, go and fight, you German coward. Stop making Ukrainians fight your war for you. The evil Putin is coming for you, isn't he? Get going. You also have to understand that, as per the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, our equivalent to the Constitution, there is no such thing as 'Canadian', we are a post-cultural state, afterall. Just like modern Germany. I suppose the distinction here is that, I, unlike yourself, do not ascribe to this anti-culture that has been unilaterally enforced by bureaucrats to the detriment of western values. Of course, as a German, you're not familiar with western values, nor are you genetically or culturally compatible with them (culture is not as easy to stomp out as our leaders would like, although you certainly represent the last gasps for air of Germanic barbarism and its hatred for civilization). Nothing you've said in this thread is 'humanist', let alone morally or ethically sound. Russia has a right to self determination, and lives are expendable to a culture, society, or civilization, in the pursuits of prosperity and/or sovereignty. That is why in 100 years, Russia might still exist, in a shape or form that is recognizable to historians, but Germany will not.
Sam Adams rank	Sat Dec 13 18:44:45 Lol jergul maths. Russian(and nk lol) casualties are around 300,000 kia and about 3x that wounded(Russians have very shitty medical care). This is of course a good thing for the world. Fewer retards.
Pillz rank	Sat Dec 13 18:53:29 (Source)
Daemon rank	Sat Dec 13 19:16:21 "Why is that? What is your motivation for your long held, absolutist, anti-Russian position?" I'm sure that I have more books of Russian authors in my bookshelf than you. I'm not simply against Russia and pro Ukraine, but I'm against the imperialist ideology of Russia and Putin. This ideology is the root of evil. "If you want to stop Putin, go and fight, you German coward" I may (I'm not admitting anything here) have caused more damage to Russia than you earn in 10 years. That may not be much when this war costs 100s of billions, but I don't pretend to be a super hacker, I'm just an old application programmer. "there is no such thing as 'Canadian'" As I do not know enough about this I have asked the most right wing AI, Grok, about it and it says your statement is false. "Of course, as a German" You make the mistake that you think everyone who is not a bloodthirsty nationalist would embrace religions like Islam or wave 24/7 rainbow flags. I despise Islam as much as other religions. And I don't want to be bothered with the sexuality of other people (be it LGBTQwhatever or straight hetero). But I also don't get angry when some guys make a gay street parade, I simply walk along another street. Some problems are none unless you declare them as problems in your tiny mind. "Russia has a right to self determination" Ukraine is not Russia, end of story. "and lives are expendable to a culture, society, or civilization" You may hate yourself as an individual, I don't. "That is why in 100 years, Russia might still exist" Why do you care so much for a second world shithole? That I what I want to know: what do you like about Russia? Why would Canada be a better country if it would behave like Russia? (Remember: then Canada might have sent you to die in some war of aggression) Is it really because you don't want to be an individual? Because you need a leader who tells you that you can only become part of something greater when you're part of a crowd? Or is it because you believe that you would fare better in a quasi-fascist society and really make a career for yourself there?
Paramount rank	Sat Dec 13 19:46:06 ”Why is that? What is your motivation for your long held, absolutist, anti-Russian position?” Maybe Daemon is still angry that Germany lost to Russia in WW2.
Sam Adams rank	Sat Dec 13 19:48:27 ”Source)” The Russian ministry of defense obviously. Lol
Pillz rank	Sat Dec 13 20:24:45 "I'm sure that I have more books of Russian authors in my bookshelf than you." Struggle to see the relevance of this comment. Appeal to authority, I suppose. "I'm not simply against Russia and pro Ukraine, but I'm against the imperialist ideology of Russia and Putin. This ideology is the root of evil." Ignorance & unrecognized cognitive dissonance. "I may (I'm not admitting anything here) have caused more damage to Russia than you earn in 10 years. That may not be much when this war costs 100s of billions, but I don't pretend to be a super hacker, I'm just an old application programmer." So you consider yourself a combatant? Noted. I'm sure you will stop Russian advances from the comfort of your office. It's been working so far. "As I do not know enough about this I have asked the most right wing AI, Grok, about it and it says your statement is false." Your ability to use AI is suspect, given your overall lack of reasoning ability. There's no debate to be had here. Your ignorance of Canadian history is not relevant to our immediate discussion. "You make the mistake that you think everyone who is not a bloodthirsty nationalist would embrace religions like Islam or wave 24/7 rainbow flags. I despise Islam as much as other religions. And I don't want to be bothered with the sexuality of other people (be it LGBTQwhatever or straight hetero). But I also don't get angry when some guys make a gay street parade, I simply walk along another street. Some problems are none unless you declare them as problems in your tiny mind." This is your German nature speaking. And it is evil. The antithesis of what created the civilization you enjoy. "Ukraine is not Russia, end of story." Wrong, it very much is Russian. And even if it were not, the invasion has to do with securiry, and is necessitated by your idealogy and subservience to American Imperialism. "You may hate yourself as an individual, I don't." A massive leap, but again, only natural given your origins. "Why do you care so much for a second world shithole?" Same reason I advocate for the rights of Christians in the middle-east. I respect the right of a people to exist without existential threat of the 'other' looming over them. This is going to cause confusion for you, and won't make sense to your broken German mind, but we can delve into it if you like. Not that it will mean anything to you. "That I what I want to know: what do you like about Russia? Why would Canada be a better country if it would behave like Russia? (Remember: then Canada might have sent you to die in some war of aggression) Is it really because you don't want to be an individual? Because you need a leader who tells you that you can only become part of something greater when you're part of a crowd? Or is it because you believe that you would fare better in a quasi-fascist society and really make a career for yourself there?" This is just nonsense, especially since we both live in quasi fascist states, and only one of us recognizes and opposes that fact.
Pillz rank	Sat Dec 13 22:12:35 Footage of a Russian armoured column pushing from Pokrovsk is available. Column was annihilated. Sam rejoices!
jergul rank	Sat Dec 13 22:19:58 Sammy Mediazona has a pretty comprehensive list of dead. The reason mobilized from october 2022 is interesting is because we know the number 300k. And we know how many have been killed - 16k. So slightly more than 5%. Mediazona has identified 155k dead in total. We have no idea of how many individuals have served in the SMO on the Russian side. I would guess something around 2 million. I am not sure why you feel that Russia upping up with close to 2 million combat veterans is a win for you. Did you not use to brag about the US being the best in the world because of all the combat experience service members had? I doubt 300k of your current soldiers have seen combat in any format (ie feel free to include cooks on US carriers as combat veterans if they happened to have been deployed in support of a warzone).
Sam Adams rank	Sun Dec 14 00:42:05 A million of those are no longer fit to serve or really do much else. So win for the intelligent world and human genes as a whole. Plus a Russian with experience is still worth nothing. 0 times anything is 0.
jergul rank	Sun Dec 14 07:07:09 How many Bradleys have these worthless Russians burned? Rofl.
Sam Adams rank	Sun Dec 14 19:08:20 20? 100? A great trade to help finish off so many honorless Russians.
jergul rank	Mon Dec 15 11:03:55 Russians are very honourable compared to Americans.
jergul rank	Mon Dec 15 11:05:51 That is why Russians have died. Because they are honorable. You would have nuked anyone way before losing 100k.
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