Utopia Talk / Politics / Europe stabs us in the back

Rugian rank	Wed Mar 18 00:33:37 Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump The United States has been informed by most of our NATO “Allies” that they don’t want to get involved with our Military Operation against the Terrorist Regime of Iran, in the Middle East, this, despite the fact that almost every Country strongly agreed with what we are doing, and that Iran cannot, in any way, shape, or form, be allowed to have a Nuclear Weapon. I am not surprised by their action, however, because I always considered NATO, where we spend Hundreds of Billions of Dollars per year protecting these same Countries, to be a one way street — We will protect them, but they will do nothing for us, in particular, in a time of need. Fortunately, we have decimated Iran’s Military — Their Navy is gone, their Air Force is gone, their Anti-Aircraft and Radar is gone and perhaps, most importantly, their Leaders, at virtually every level, are gone, never to threaten us, our Middle Eastern Allies, or the World, again! Because of the fact that we have had such Military Success, we no longer “need,” or desire, the NATO Countries’ assistance — WE NEVER DID! Likewise, Japan, Australia, or South Korea. In fact, speaking as President of the United States of America, by far the Most Powerful Country Anywhere in the World, WE DO NOT NEED THE HELP OF ANYONE! Thank you for your attention to this matter. President DONALD J. TRUMP
Rugian rank	Wed Mar 18 00:36:09 Senator Lindsey Graham @LindseyGrahamSC Just spoke to @POTUS about our European allies’ unwillingness to provide assets to keep the Strait of Hormuz functioning, which benefits Europe far more than America. I have never heard him so angry in my life. I share that anger given what’s at stake. The arrogance of our allies to suggest that Iran with a nuclear weapon is of little concern and that military action to stop the ayatollah from acquiring a nuclear bomb is our problem not theirs is beyond offensive. The European approach to containing the ayatollah’s nuclear ambitions have proven to be a miserable failure. The repercussions of providing little assistance to keep the Strait of Hormuz functioning are going to be wide and deep for Europe and America. I consider myself very forward-leaning on supporting alliances, however at a time of real testing like this, it makes me second guess the value of these alliances. I am certain I am not the only senator who feels this way.
Rugian rank	Wed Mar 18 00:38:22 The president of the United States has never been angrier in his entire life. Such a betrayal will not be easily forgotten or forgiven.
jergul rank	Wed Mar 18 00:41:07 I think you were more stabbed in the face than in the back.
Rugian rank	Wed Mar 18 00:43:31 After all the United States has done for you ungrateful ingrates. How dare you.
tumbleweed rank	Wed Mar 18 00:44:54 " The arrogance of our allies to suggest that Iran with a nuclear weapon is of little concern and that military action to stop the ayatollah from acquiring a nuclear bomb is our problem not theirs is beyond offensive... " which is why R's were all clamoring urgently for war before this started... oh wait nobody was... not until Trump started the war... now it somehow was urgently needed... (plus still nobody explains the strategy that's going to stop them from seeking a nuclear weapon... just 'trust in Trump'... CULT)
Rugian rank	Wed Mar 18 00:45:06 Donald Trump Issues New NATO Warning Trump was asked by a reporter on Tuesday whether he is "rethinking the United States’ relationship with NATO" and whether the U.S. would be "possibly getting out" of the military alliance. Trump said he is "disappointed in" NATO, noting that the U.S. has spent "trillions of dollars" on the alliance over the years. "When they don’t help us, it’s certainly something that we should think about. I don’t need Congress for that decision," he said. He said he has "nothing currently in mind" in terms of rethinking the U.S. relationship with NATO but is "not exactly thrilled when we help them with Ukraine."
Rugian rank	Wed Mar 18 00:45:30 Ukraine aid is going bye bye...I hope you all know that.
tumbleweed rank	Wed Mar 18 01:15:53 time for aid for Russia... maybe provide Zelensky's location
tumbleweed rank	Wed Mar 18 01:31:11 included in the leaving NATO comments noted above was "I don't need Congress for that decision, as you probably know" (he likes adding 'as you probably know' to his fabricated bullshit) but yes, he does need Congress (if following the law... a thing once thought important...) video of those comments: https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3mhbecm67td2y
murder rank	Wed Mar 18 03:00:19 Trump is going to have to prop up some major bases in Africa before he pulls out of NATO. -
Habebe rank	Wed Mar 18 04:17:09 I mean, as TW said, no one was clamoring for war with Iran. Sure regime change would help us out alot, but probably isn't worth the hassle. That said, why TF are we STILL in Ukraine?
tumbleweed rank	Wed Mar 18 05:05:12 i think all we're doing for Ukraine is what Congress approved in the past & Trump can't cancel he's said for awhile that we're selling weapons to NATO & they can give them to Ukraine if they want (so profit), he -never-talks of helping them as the right thing to do nor suggests it's of any interest to him
Paramount rank	Wed Mar 18 07:46:01 ” Fortunately, we have decimated Iran’s Military — Their Navy is gone, their Air Force is gone, their Anti-Aircraft and Radar is gone and perhaps, most importantly, their Leaders, at virtually every level, are gone,” So… why doesn’t Trump ask the Israeli navy to park itself in the Strait of Hormuz? Isn’t Israel your ally no longer? Why doesn’t the US navy itself park itself there? What is the point of having this navy if you are too scared to use it? But. Trump is right. I think he should call the PM of Sweden and ask Sweden to leave NATO.
Paramount rank	Wed Mar 18 07:57:34 ” our NATO “Allies” that they don’t want to get involved with our Military Operation against the Terrorist Regime of Iran” Neither does non-NATO countries such as Japan, South Korea, China. But, don't despair. Israel, who pushed you into this war will be willing to help you out. Right? Ha ha
williamthebastard rank	Wed Mar 18 08:39:06 "we no longer “need,” or desire, the NATO Countries’ assistance — WE NEVER DID" You didnt leave me - I left YOU!
Seb rank	Wed Mar 18 11:54:32 Rugian: You realise Europe was a party to the JCPOA also and when you unilaterally withdrew, you broke your word to us. Now you started an entirely unnecessary war without consultation and you come demanding help. But this after a year of calculated insults, trade wars, and overt political interference? Get fucked.
Seb rank	Wed Mar 18 11:54:59 Rugian: What Ukraine aid?
williamthebastard rank	Wed Mar 18 12:37:20 Ukraine? The country stuck in a devastating war but is sending drones anyway to the USA in the war they started with Iran? Thats right, cut off aid to countries that are sending you aid, thats the US way.
williamthebastard rank	Wed Mar 18 12:41:03 "While U.S. aid to Ukraine dropped by 99% in 2025, European military aid rose by 67% last year European nations are now buying billions of dollars’ worth of American equipment to give to Ukraine. Russia continues to fail to achieve its objectives at enormous cost, while Ukraine once again proves the kind of ally it can be for the United States. While Ukraine is helping defend U.S. forces and allies in the Middle East, Russia, despite its denials, is assisting Iran and putting American servicemembers at risk." http://www...vestment-ukraine-daniel-kochis But you keep on electing russian assets and spitting on you allies and do what you do
Pillz rank	Wed Mar 18 12:52:10 Lol at the retarded gay neo Nazi
jergul rank	Wed Mar 18 12:55:44 Seb There is still aid. What happens if an executive order blocks starlink for example?
Paramount rank	Wed Mar 18 12:57:11 Ukraine is practically run by the CIA. They are just moving their assets to protect Israel. They have moved assets from South Korea also. Do you think they do this because they want to? No, it’s being ordered. Also, I don’t know what world you live in to believe that Trump is a Russian asset. Everyone in the White House, in the Senate, and in the Congress are Israeli assets. Everyone, including Trump. Hello? Good morning? It is time to wake up now.
Seb rank	Wed Mar 18 13:29:56 Jergul: Poland pays Starlink bills for Ukraine's usage. I wouldn't characterise generously letting US firms sell stuff to Ukraine paid for by Europeans to be "Aid". I would characterise blocking sales as aiding Russia; and if that's the game we want to play, I'm sure many European companies would love to defray the costs of air and missile defence needed to protect against any future Russian drone war by selling to all sorts of countries.
williamthebastard rank	Wed Mar 18 13:32:06 Its astounding that big, tough USA cant handle a country it chose to attack thats 1/80th its military size. If the US ever gets into a war with a rich country 1/10th of its size, it'll probably get fucked so hard in the ass it wont be able to swim straight
jergul rank	Wed Mar 18 13:37:17 Seb I would. Not monetary aid, but access to technology. There are other things though. The US is still providing intel to Ukraine. And the logistics framework that keeps a lot of Ukrainian stuff in the field. Most of it deep state. Trump is probably not aware of the institutional support Ukraine is getting from the US.
jergul rank	Wed Mar 18 13:38:17 We have zero credibility in tit-for-tat measures. If starlink is lost due to an executive order, then that is that.
Seb rank	Wed Mar 18 14:02:22 Jergul: Not putting a country specific block on exports to Ukraine isn't what I'd call aid. Ukraine had diversified it's sources of intel since the US cut it off previously and also since the US appears to have leaked Ukraine intel to Russia. It's useful, not decisive. Logistics, possibly. "If starlink is lost due to an executive order, then that is that." The cost to the US on forgoing PURL income is its own penalty.
jergul rank	Wed Mar 18 14:13:45 Access to unique technology is aid. I can give you 39 trillion reasons for why the US does not care about income. US treasury just released the new number on government debt :).
jergul rank	Wed Mar 18 14:15:32 As to intel. We dont have nearly the capacity the US does. Transparent battlefields is more about that aid than it is drone surveillance.
Seb rank	Wed Mar 18 17:50:39 Pretty much every professional conversation I have these days tends to be about sovereign capabilities and removing dependencies on the US tech stack. Further weaponisation of dependencies US based technology services is really not something the US wants to do. Starlink and Spacex is fucked if their service becomes unsuitable for adoption as business critical/core national infrastructure. That's their core use case gone. Major powers will build their own instead. It is not actually that hard technically, it is just hard to compete with a firm that has a head start and sunk the development costs already.
Seb rank	Wed Mar 18 17:52:24 Basically, it would be bad for Ukraine, but not bad enough for Europe to involve itself in a distracting war in the middle east as it ramps up for possible war in Europe. And in the long run, if the US is stupid enough to do this, it's great for EU arms and tech firms export markets.
Seb rank	Wed Mar 18 17:53:16 And that alone is why trump would likely have a lot of internal opposition to such petty fuckery.
Sam Adams rank	Wed Mar 18 17:59:23 "Major powers will build their own instead." But you aren't a major power anymore, you don't have the ability to compete, and you certainly don't have the will. Lol seb, yet again, is all talk.
Pillz rank	Wed Mar 18 18:06:50 Does wtb think there's a rich country with 1/10th the military if the US?
Seb rank	Wed Mar 18 22:14:12 We literally bought a satellite network to ensure a sovereign capability a few years back moron.
Forwyn rank	Wed Mar 18 22:21:34 Congratulations, you did what a private US company does so well that other nations expect them to assist with your war efforts
williamthebastard rank	Wed Mar 18 22:23:07 You mean your government is so rotten to the core that its given away core pieces of its security apparatus to billionaires.
williamthebastard rank	Wed Mar 18 22:24:47 *billionaires who do nazi salutes at maga rallies
Sam Adams rank	Wed Mar 18 22:38:16 ^lol ”We literally bought a satellite network to ensure a sovereign capability" More lol
Seb rank	Thu Mar 19 00:45:57 Forwyn: It's a private company, bought to sustain it through development (it ran out of capital during development), now back in the private sector.
Seb rank	Thu Mar 19 10:49:30 Ah so now Trump is realising Israel isn't interested in MAGA, it just wants to destroy Iran (and if that takes it the global economy, so be it).
Rugian rank	Thu Mar 19 13:10:20 Israel is doing what needs to be done: helping to destroy Iran. Europe is doing what is always does, cowering in the corner like a complete pussy. Disgraceful and dishonorable to the extreme...but sadly not surprising.
Rugian rank	Thu Mar 19 13:16:19 We need to start actively working to boost conservative European candidates and overthrow existing governments. We're overdue for some vassal management.
jergul rank	Thu Mar 19 13:17:48 Iran is not going to be destroyed Ruggy. Not unless you use nukes. Nor does it need to be done. Disengagement may be possible for the US, but not a return to normal. It is hard to see how "fighting" between Israel and Iran will stop though. A reset is required as Iran is not interested in giving Israel a chance to restock its defensive and offensive munitions. To use and analogy I am blatantly stealing from bigserge. You are trying to defang a viper. Turns out Iran is an anaconda.
jergul rank	Thu Mar 19 13:20:26 You could just stop-loss and extract from this huge mistake. Israel will carry on. Your combined industrial might may be enough to keep the IDF armed and fighting semi-effectively. Spreading the limited capacity amongst both of you would mean neither can to the job.
jergul rank	Thu Mar 19 13:25:34 You can produce 35000 glide bomb kits a year. That works out to 100 per day. It completely dwarfs limited missile production capacity Current rate of expenditure of all types of stand-off munitions is 500 a day. Intensity will by nessessity stabilize at 25% (max) of what you have used so far daily. The surge effect is waning fast.
Rugian rank	Thu Mar 19 13:47:49 Jergul Who's in charge of the Norway Democrats these days? Geir Jacobsen? I'm drafting a tweet to send to our State Department. Of course it's possible to destroy Iran. Just as it was possible to destroy the Ba'athists in Iraq and Syria. Betting against the US' ability to break shit is a losing strategy.
jergul rank	Thu Mar 19 13:56:55 Ruggy Numbers suggest you cannot break it fast enough without using nukes. We have an excuse for not sending ships that Trump accepted. We need to watch the Russian bear.
Sam Adams rank	Thu Mar 19 15:25:00 ”jergul rank Thu Mar 19 13:56:55 Numbers " Lol
Seb rank	Thu Mar 19 16:25:58 Rugian: Yeah, because Trump and the US is so popular among the European conservatives. The only winner from America's collective toddler fit is China. They've locked down the electrification industry due to American conservatives hissy fit that it is gay. Now the US has started a war that's knocking out significant chunks of gas and oil production for years. The result will be a sudden surge in demand for Chinese solar panels, batteries, wind turbines and electric cars; they are the only ones that can meet the demand for that. And then of course there's a dependency. Meanwhile Rugian's answer is to wage a more intense cold war political subversion campaign against US allies, and wonder why the US is increasingly hated.
williamthebastard rank	Thu Mar 19 17:09:40 Rugian will be posting about how Denmark stabbed the USA in the back for not sending troops to help the USA invade Greenland.
Sam Adams rank	Thu Mar 19 17:16:55 "The result will be a sudden surge in demand for Chinese solar panels, batteries, wind turbines and electric cars; they are the only ones that can meet the demand for that." Why isn't europe filling this demand? Didn't you guys used to have an industry?
Seb rank	Thu Mar 19 18:29:41 Sam: We will a bit. But China has an even bigger industry and can make things at even lower cost and uses state finances to create huge capacity of formerly high margin products, which makes them low margin products (normally a bad idea in a capitalist system, but also unlocks growth by stimulating demand). Mostly European industry has reacted to eye rise of Asian manufacturing by specialising on expensive, low volume high value products, like the machines used to manufacture solar cells, where it's much harder to enter the market, which we then export to Asian manufacturers, or focus entirely on IP licensing model. Cf. ASML, ARM. Whereas the US manufacturers simply outsourced manufacturing to Asia and focused on turned into, essentially, finance organisations.
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