Utopia Talk / Politics / Happy Taco Tuesday Pt II

williamthebastard rank	Wed Apr 08 15:56:36 Seems to just be Trump fantasizing about becoming business partners with Iran at this point in time. "The United States and Iran are mulling a “joint venture” to charge tolls on the Strait of Hormuz, ABC correspondent Jonathan Carl says US President Donald Trump told him. “We’re thinking of doing it as a joint venture. It’s a way of securing it — also securing it from lots of other people,” Trump is quoted as claiming to the correspondent. “It’s a beautiful thing.” No other US official has indicated that such a plan is under discussion." To be sure, this could be a complete turn-around in ME affairs. It would take Trump about 1/10th of a second to ditch Israel and make Iran their new best buddies with that kind of money in the offing, which would also get the rest of the oil exporters there to reverse course on Israel and Iran, but Im not sure Iran could stomach chumming up to him and the USA, or trust him enough, given their history. If they did, it would likely be devastating for Israel, however. Given the future, what with this massive power leverage Trump has given Iran, China might well be seen as looking like a much more interesting best buddy with none of the bloody past.
williamthebastard rank	Wed Apr 08 16:00:34 China doesnt "create uncertainty" a la The Art of the Deal, since both the business world and the world of politics hate dealing with actors that create uncertainty - the 1st rule of business and politics being to create stability and reliability.
TheChildren rank	Wed Apr 08 16:11:42 why wuld iran allow dis lol also, is clear who won and who lost dis war
Rugian rank	Wed Apr 08 16:13:43 ^ yes it is clear! President Trump’s ceasefire with Iran draws praise from world leaders http://www...israel-live-updates-04-08-2026
williamthebastard rank	Wed Apr 08 16:21:21 Yes, Israel has a very different view than the Foxnews panicked clean up-op above “We won, okay,” the US president claimed on Monday night. But for all his contradictions, as Trump knows full well, the Iranian regime against which he went to war remains in power, and its nuclear ambitions are anything but dimmed. The fact is that the “new” faces of Iran are just like the “old” faces — except newly aware of their immense potential to extort the world via control over the Strait of Hormuz, and more aware, too, that nuclear weapons would make them broadly invincible. http://www...dium=article_end&utm_content=2
murder rank	Wed Apr 08 16:26:46 "The United States and Iran are mulling a “joint venture” to charge tolls on the Strait of Hormuz, ABC correspondent Jonathan Carl says US President Donald Trump told him. I'm sure the Saudis would be thrilled. lol :o) -
jergul rank	Wed Apr 08 16:28:01 Israel is clearly violating the cf. There was no carve-out option to excempt Lebanon.
murder rank	Wed Apr 08 16:30:44 Things get lost in translation. -
TheChildren rank	Wed Apr 08 16:32:30 "draws praise from world leaders " >> iran owns hormuz, gets paid, sanctions r gone, petroyuan rises, u lost tons of militarie toys, u lost 60 billioniez in 6 weeks, countless dead, they dunt even dare 2 reveal dis 2 u, dats how baaaad dis is 4 u yes, quite clear who won
Forwyn rank	Wed Apr 08 16:36:16 "There was no carve-out option to excempt Lebanon." Why would a ceasefire with Iran need carveouts of other nations?
jergul rank	Wed Apr 08 16:44:25 Fair enough. Israel was also not party to the agreement. So Israel's unilateral decision to stop bombing Iran proper has no value. Things can carry on. Just without the USA.
jergul rank	Wed Apr 08 16:46:34 Come to think of it, the gulf states are not covered either. Why would they be in a bilateral agreement between Iran and the USA?
williamthebastard rank	Wed Apr 08 17:33:13 Because Iran says the strait is now closed due to Israels attacks on Lebanon
Rugian rank	Wed Apr 08 18:33:13 Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump Numerous Agreements, Lists, and Letters are being sent out by people that have absolutely nothing to do with the U.S.A. / Iran Negotiation, in many cases, they are total Fraudsters, Charlatans, and WORSE. They will be rapidly exposed after our Federal Investigation is completed. There is only one group of meaningful “POINTS” that are acceptable to the United States, and we will be discussing them behind closed doors during these Negotiations. These are the POINTS that are the basis on which we agreed to a CEASEFIRE. It is something that is reasonable, and can easily be dispensed with. It’s very much like Fake News CNN last night, headlining a “source” that had no power or authority to write a Letter claiming great authority. President DONALD J. TRUMP
jergul rank	Wed Apr 08 19:22:43 Iran's will be charging 1 dollar per barrel in transit fees in two easy steps 1. Ship reports its cargo 2. Ship uses a QR code to make a payment in bitcoins. I imagine other products will have a similar regime.
Forwyn rank	Wed Apr 08 19:37:43 Are Oman and UAE parties to these closures? Did a closure announcement have carveouts for these nations?
jergul rank	Wed Apr 08 19:55:04 The closure announcement is unilateral. Iran is simply asserting that it controls the strait and sets the conditions for transit. It also asserts that the cf includes Lebanon. So either Lebanon is protected or there is no cf.
jergul rank	Wed Apr 08 19:57:07 I think Iran communicates in a way Trump understands.
Sam Adams rank	Wed Apr 08 20:04:43 ”will be charging 1 dollar per barrel in transit fees in two easy steps” Lol no it won't.
tumbleweed rank	Wed Apr 08 20:07:26 they just need to cut Trump in on the tolls/protection money & he'll be cool w/ it also he expressed interest in calling it the Straight of Trump...
Paramount rank	Wed Apr 08 20:13:08 Did anyone buy stocks before the ”ceasefire”? The stock markets took a leap up. If you bought any stocks maybe it is time to sell them now before the fake ceasefire collapse and the stock markets fall.
Forwyn rank	Wed Apr 08 20:21:46 "Iran is simply asserting that it controls the strait" They share the strait with other nations. "It also asserts that the cf includes Lebanon." Lebanon is three nations away. There seems to be some gradeschool-level geography confusion here.
tumbleweed rank	Wed Apr 08 20:39:45 pretty sure Iran's 10-pt plan had them sharing the toll w/ Oman
Sam Adams rank	Wed Apr 08 20:47:04 Irans 10 point plan isn't happening
jergul rank	Wed Apr 08 20:53:11 Sammy What point in particular do you think is not happening? Forwyn Iran has defining power in that bilateral cf agreement it has with the US. It has also established that it can indeed introduce a tariff regime for transit through the strait. UNCLOS does not actually dispute that strait passages may run through territorial waters. It just tried to codify feefree transit. Iran and the US are not signees to UNCLOS.
williamthebastard rank	Wed Apr 08 20:56:17 Oh great, finally someone with real military expertise. Csam, could you check with your secret high-level Pentagon source TexasVikingKKK@X.com who gets his data from Hollywood action movies on Flix how Trump managed to force Iran to accept this yuge defeat? Thanks!
williamthebastard rank	Wed Apr 08 21:07:44 Israel attacking Iran. I would suppose all thats going to happen is that the Trump withdraws from actively partipitaing in the war while Iran and Israel continue bombing each other if it werent for the issue that Iran can now harm the USA badly if they dont tell Israel to back off.
williamthebastard rank	Wed Apr 08 21:10:29 Then again, Trump couldnt give the tiniest homeless person's shit about the US economy as long as he doesnt get blamed. And I suppose Maga will claim he's completely innocent if he's withdrawn from the war and its all Iran and Israels fault or something.
Forwyn rank	Thu Apr 09 01:09:42 "It has also established that it can" It has established that it can try. Again, they do not have sole claim to the Strait. Interesting that your neighboring Danish Straits managed to settle this before UNCLOS. But then, they are also more civilized. This from a nation that does have virtually uncontested control of the Straits, and relied on its significant revenue.
tumbleweed rank	Thu Apr 09 01:56:41 the statement from Iran, that Trump was happy enough with to post, included if you want safe passage you have to coordinate w/ their armed forces (& them charging tolls as part of their plan) so kinda sounds like 'arrange payment & you're safe', why else would you need to coordinate if it was just open for all
jergul rank	Thu Apr 09 01:59:45 Forwyn It already has enforced tariffs. The 10 or so ships passing a day paid it while the conflict was ongoing. It has sole claim to portions of the strait that is needed for navigation. Unless you wanted to reduce the sailthroughs to less than half by way of some outlandish right-of-way convoy system outside of Iranian territorial waters. Egypt also managed to settle the issue in 1956 and has been harvesting transit tariffs since that time. Thing is, Iran has grounds and no real choice after damage inflicted by the illegal war of aggression was waged against it. Sanctions, secondary sanctions and snapback sanctions trigger by a use it or lose it clause has seen to that. Tariffs are both justified and pragmatic given that reparations are not feasible. The pressure that saw Denmark give up its strait tariffs are not applicable. Nor is the concept of free trade really valid anymore after Trump's widespread tariffication. You cant have your cake and eat it too.
Sam Adams rank	Thu Apr 09 02:54:50 Omg jd Vance is retarded. Like seb level retarded
Sam Adams rank	Thu Apr 09 03:03:48 "It has sole claim to portions of the strait that is needed for navigation." Nope. We do now.
jergul rank	Thu Apr 09 03:04:57 No you dont. You just surrendered.
Sam Adams rank	Thu Apr 09 03:07:55 Well then our next competent president will take it back. Also the entire Atlantic. If you enter the Atlantic you owe us a tarrif. Since it's ours. Consider it reparations for having to deal with your idiocy.
jergul rank	Thu Apr 09 03:12:47 We have established that you cannot take the strait. You can excert negative control. Which is actually enough to enforce tariffs if you wanted to. Most goods crossing the atlantic are already subject to tariffs, so who cares? Its just a consumer tax on Americans anyway.
Forwyn rank	Thu Apr 09 03:30:56 A manmade canal is not the same as a natural waterway, and shutting the Suez down does not landlock four other nations. But you're retarded enough to compare tariffs to military threats against merchant vessels.
jergul rank	Thu Apr 09 03:44:45 Forwyn It was a canal not subject to tariffs. Then it became a canal subject to tariffs. Well, more coast guard threats. Violating shipping would just be arrested and held until the shipowners paid fines and what was owed on the tariff. For peacetime. Wartime? Only authorised shipping allowed. What do you find odd about that? Ultimately it is just a question of rolling back colonialism. The whole freedom of navigation thing is a child of gunboat diplomacy. Forcing market and resource access where countries wanted it or not. It kind of made sense in a global, free trade inclined global economy, but now that tariffs are back, then let there be all kinds of tariffs. You can see that Trump quite likes the idea in, uhm, principle.
jergul rank	Thu Apr 09 03:50:49 Both the NE and NW passage have transit fees incidentally. For routes outside of territorial waters.
jergul rank	Thu Apr 09 03:57:58 Both Canada and Russia work there way around UNCLOS by calling the routes opposite of each other across the artic sea for "internal seaways". Not a relevant consideration for Iran and the US as you are not signees.
Habebe rank	Thu Apr 09 04:56:00 He could have walked out and shot a man and wouldn't have lost more than 1 voter...... But he clearly couldn't have terrorized and punished a sizeable minority of the citizenry with secret police and fvk up a war with Iran. Longtime prominent supporters are dropping like flies.
Habebe rank	Thu Apr 09 05:24:39 Jergul, The US and other arctic sea nations agreed to abide by customary laws of the sea framework. Also we assert our rights with freedom of navigation excersices....because we have a real Navy. (Albeit shitty shipbuilding capacity) We basically agree to disagree with Canada, but they haven't stopped us yet (we also have a side arctic agreement with Canada for research etc.) Similar to alot of treatise, the US likes to avoid being subject to foriegn rule, call.it childhood trauma from Europe.
jergul rank	Thu Apr 09 06:10:17 You also do it by having a merchant fleet half the size of Norway's and 1/20th the size of the EUs. Your navy can sail around and wave flags. The merchant ships pay the fees and dues or risk impoundment.
jergul rank	Thu Apr 09 06:14:29 My point however was that fees, tariffs or dues can be charged. Canada does it. There is nothing particularly outlandish about Iran wanting to do so. It is the only form of reparations it will see. If I were the US, I would let Iran charge the fees but link it to sanction relief. Lifting sanctions would have another precondition.
TheChildren rank	Thu Apr 09 08:43:52 "We do now. " >> have ya won a war yet since ww2? lol
murder rank	Thu Apr 09 09:45:34 "Again, they do not have sole claim to the Strait." You must have just woken up from a long slumber. By MAGA's own rules, might makes right, and anything that you can take by force or coercion is yours. Until someone can take the strait from Iran, it's theirs. -
murder rank	Thu Apr 09 09:49:04 "A manmade canal is not the same as a natural waterway, and shutting the Suez down does not landlock four other nations." Every one of those nations host US forces. -
Seb rank	Thu Apr 09 10:15:26 NaMBLA: "next competent president" - what makes you think you'll have one of those? Trump didn't elect himself. People like you did. The problem with narrowing US democracy in the ways you have done to entrench the culture war right is precisely what allows creatures like Trump to win. The pattern is proven. His methods work. Why will others not use it? And your paradox is you haven't put together why it is that the kinds of people that support you on your key policies turn out to be people you think of as too dumb to support; but also too aligned on values to oppose. The answer is you aren't as clever as you think you are and lack the intellectual integrity to subject your values to scrutiny. Smart people generally do, and that's why you don't find many smart people on your side of the US culture war.
williamthebastard rank	Thu Apr 09 11:30:14 Many? You obviously dont find any. The right havent had a respected intellectual since Nietzsche. Their smartest people, the Thiels, the Musks, are poisoning the planet, causing mass migration and wars, and leading us to the worst disasters in all human history.
williamthebastard rank	Thu Apr 09 11:31:37 The modern right is where the stupid, the dangerously greedy and everyone who says, fuck tomorrow, life is about today-demographics gather.
williamthebastard rank	Thu Apr 09 11:34:44 * Stupid to mention Nietzsche actually since he was a conservative and as distant to the contemporary rightwing as he was to Nazism
Sam Adams rank	Thu Apr 09 16:22:22 "is precisely what allows creatures like Trump to win." No seb, you filthy pedo importer. Your retardation elects trumps. Do you possibly think Trump could have won, especially a second term, without you and your far left pedo importer friends being so retarded that trump looks like a decent alternative?
jergul rank	Thu Apr 09 18:02:28 That is the thing. The idea is to make the opposition look retarded. Biden is fine these days, but sadly had a speech impediment that could be weaponized. It will be the same next cycle and in all future cycles. The method is too seductive to fail in the age of AI generation and memes.
Sam Adams rank	Thu Apr 09 18:37:57 ”Biden is fine these days" Lolwut. Why do you say things that are so blatantly and obviously untrue?
jergul rank	Thu Apr 09 18:52:55 Mentally. The treatment he is getting is not compatible with functional dementia. So he has significant cognitive reserves. Now use the same yardstick on Trump that you do on Biden. You see how brainwashed you are?
Rugian rank	Thu Apr 09 19:48:11 Imagine believing that the only problem with Biden's presidency was that he had a speech impediment. I swear. Euros claim that they're so much better with their political knowledge than Americans, but they clearly have zero idea what the fuck they're talking about a lot of the time.
jergul rank	Thu Apr 09 19:55:45 There are a huge lot of problems with your presidents. Its been that way for GOP presidents since Bush senior. Would it be better than your elected people in their 40s, 50s and maybe 60s? Well yes. But the yardstick for Biden is Trump as the argument is that Trump is somehow better. Have you listened to him speak at all? Truly listen? *mic drop*
Sam Adams rank	Thu Apr 09 20:08:40 There is no possible way you could ever look at Biden and come to any conclusion other than he is deep into the final decline of dementia. You get the most basic facts of the world completely wrong. ... ... ... Have you been checked for dimensia jergul?
jergul rank	Thu Apr 09 20:12:08 Worry about yourself, dumb one ("dimensia". lol) "Adults with ADHD have an increased risk of developing dementia, with studies indicating a 2.77-fold higher risk compared to those without ADHD. This association is linked to higher levels of neurofilaments (a marker of brain damage) and increased iron in specific brain regions. However, ADHD treatment with stimulant medications may lower this risk" AI.
Sam Adams rank	Thu Apr 09 20:17:26 ”Biden is fine these days" Says dementia patient.
jergul rank	Thu Apr 09 20:26:09 Sammy Geeze, what is it with the MAGA crowd, their fellow travellers, and projection? You are the "dimensia" risk here, not me. I still play fps games for gods sake. Lern2reed. And perhaps even understand what you read.
Sam Adams rank	Thu Apr 09 20:34:34 "I still play fps games" I guess we can cross that off the list of things that stave off dementia. ”Biden is fine these days" Lol
jergul rank	Thu Apr 09 20:45:33 Dummy, it does not stave off dementia, it is simply something that anyone in cognitive decline would have serious problems playing. Playing fps games correlates with good cognitive function because it is no fun if you are in serious decline.
jergul rank	Thu Apr 09 20:47:06 Look at sammy messing up correlation and causation again. Lol. Such a big brain. Hydrocephalus style big brain.
Sam Adams rank	Thu Apr 09 22:37:48 I can imagine jergul on easy level with a cheat code or two still getting fragged lol.
jergul rank	Thu Apr 09 22:40:02 Sammy is telling us he has VAC bans without telling us he has VAC bans.
Sam Adams rank	Fri Apr 10 00:08:18 Wtf is a vac ban Geek
jergul rank	Fri Apr 10 01:25:00 You could have googled that with one third the words: "VAC Ban" Boomer.
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