Utopia Talk / Politics / Gaza: Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius

Rugian Member	Sun Oct 08 22:36:49 Ergo, caedite eos. Link to previous: http://uto...hread=92218&time=1696819514043
Rugian Member	Sun Oct 08 23:07:37 Our best and brightest: "Harvard students expressed their support for Palestinian terrorists amid the unprecedented terror attack on Israel this weekend. In a joint statement signed by at least 57 student groups, the Ivy League students blamed Israel for the Palestinian terrorist organization Hamas killing 600 Israelis. “We, the undersigned student organizations, hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence,” a joint statement by scores of Harvard student groups read." http://www...orists-after-attack-on-israel/
Rugian Member	Sun Oct 08 23:12:19 "Leaked Emails Show Canadian Media Exec Demanding Journalists Avoid Using Term ‘Terrorist’ in Hamas Coverage An email from the Canadian Broadcast Corporation (CBC), a publicly funded news outlet, instructed journalists to avoid using the word “terrorist” in their coverage of the ongoing war between Israel and Hamas. “Do not refer to militants, soldiers, or anyone else as ‘terrorists,'” George Achi, the Director of Journalistic Standards with CBC News, told employees in an email sent midday Saturday. “The notion of terrorism remains highly politicized and is part of the story. Even when quoting/clipping a government or a source referring to fighters as ‘terrorists,’ we should add context to ensure the audience understands this opinion, not fact,” Achi explained in a note first obtained by the American organization StopAntisemtism." http://www...m-terrorist-in-hamas-coverage/
Dukhat Member	Sun Oct 08 23:13:05 Breibart and National Review and other cuckservative news don't miss a beat in exaggerating anecdotes to make the Dems look bad no matter the circumstance.
Rugian Member	Sun Oct 08 23:15:44 You arbitrarily dismissed a highly reliable source (WSJ) because it wasn't sufficiently leftwing enough for you. Shut the fuck up you cretin.
murder Member	Sun Oct 08 23:25:06 From the last thread ... "Really need trump is the office. Well. Really anyone on the republican side. Biden is a fucking empty suit controlled by lgbtq blm political bullshit. Hamas and Iran just reminded the western world that radical Islam is still our enemy is we need to destroy them over there or else we will have to fight them here." It's amazing how quickly some people forget that Trump allowed Iran to drop missiles on our troops and didn't do fuck all about it.
obaminated Member	Mon Oct 09 00:33:57 I guess you mean this? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Martyr_Soleimani Iran warned us ahead of time so they wouldnt kill any Americans. This was them saving face after we killed one of their generals. I guess that is why no one cared and why trump isn't viewed as a weak president.
Dukhat Member	Mon Oct 09 00:36:41 LoL, you stupid fuck. The guy rolled over if you offered him a whiff of a bribe.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 00:40:05 ”It's amazing how quickly some people forget that Trump allowed Iran to drop missiles on our troops and didn't do fuck all about it.” Trump assassinated Suleimani, the nr 2 person in Irania power structure. The most popular leader rivaling Khamenei. Iran than shot some missiles and didn’t even kill a dog. For Trump to retaliate that and escalate things, he would have had to have been the madman you Trump deranged desperately wanted him to be. So, it is the people who seriously think this, that are deranged and insane. Oh hi murder! :-)
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 00:56:21 I wouldn’t even say that Trump showed restraint, it was obvious for a child. If my child throws a rock at someones head and makes them bleed, then the other kid throws a rock and misses my kid, my kid is going to haha like Nelson, not throw another rock. Iranians understand this. The 85% that are not regime supporters im particular. It was another one of those moments in recent memory (the nost recent their toothless response to Taliban aggression) where the facade cracked. Remember that authoritarian regimes the are in power based on an external enemy narratives, live and die based on how they manage to deal with that enemy. Without a doubt, the most abused phrase and object of blame by the regime is “The enemy” (doshman). The enemy tried this, the enemy did that, the enemy thinks we are weak, the enemy will be taught a lesson, the enemy is behind the protests, the enemy has made a mistake.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 02:31:11 Oil, defense stocks and gold are ripping today. The classic trifecta of war and turmoil. But also things that have been doing well for the last year or two. Meaning I was already trading them and had a position in them :P Thank god I met Nhill and bought into his misinformation.
Asgard Member	Mon Oct 09 02:35:35 The media reports that the total dead so far exceed 1000 but the official number still stands at 700 The Gazans are still invading just now there are about 80 Hamas terrorists fighting the IDF in one of the towns that were already hit, probably sprung up near or at the town from a tunnel The fighting itself - not the bombardments and rocket exchanges - is still very much ongoing all over
Rugian Member	Mon Oct 09 05:20:15 * Alesia vibes intensifying * "Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, meanwhile, ordered a “complete siege” on Gaza, saying authorities would cut electricity and block the entry of food and fuel. Israel and Egypt have imposed various levels of blockade on the territory since Hamas seized power from rival Palestinian forces in 2007. Gallant said Israel was at war with “human animals,” using the kind of dehumanizing language often employed by both sides at times of soaring tensions." http://apn...77e096f62bf535bebcdff38cf16049
Asgard Member	Mon Oct 09 06:13:14 FYi Israel is the main source of drinking water for Gaza It has been halted just now. I hope Jergul and Paragay can explain why Israel is supposed to feed the hand that rapes and kills
Paramount Member	Mon Oct 09 06:46:26 Israel are Nazis, so indeed why should they? It wouldn’t make sense.
jergul large member	Mon Oct 09 06:51:26 You are not supposed to feed the hand that rapes and kills. Targetting water and sewages systems has been done before by other countries without legal consequence, so seems established as a legitimate way of waging war. But you know your history. There are examples of enclaves under complete embargo where millions died there or in camps after those enclaves were liquidated. It is not really something that should be taken too far. A couple weeks is fine.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 06:57:37 Jergul That is really horrible advice. I had a german art teacher when I was in 7th grade. There was this incident with a wasp in the class room. He smashed it dead. Then firmly told me to never anger a wasp, you must kill it, or leave it alone. If you anger it, it will sting you. That was straight out of The Prince by Machiavelli, I learned a few years later reading the book. The whole problem with this conflict is precisely the stupid thing you are saying. You either kill the wasp, or you leave it alone. Antagonizing people for weeks at a time, will only ensure they will come back at a later date and rape and kill your women and children.
Rugian Member	Mon Oct 09 07:01:00 Yeah, I'm also skeptical that Israel keeps the water embargo in place on a permanent basis, but OTOH what would an embargo for just a few weeks actually accomplish?
jergul large member	Mon Oct 09 07:20:37 Ruggy You formulated the key problem. What is anything supposed to accomplish over the long term? Punitive stuff is natural as is degrading Hamas' fighting capabilities. It buys time before the next Hamas operation. But, ultimately, Israel's security depends on a robust defensive stance so raids like this can be nipped in the bud. I don't think genocide is on the table. That is my premise.
jergul large member	Mon Oct 09 07:24:28 Nimi too formulated a key problem, but should have gone with "decades at a time" It is hardly a secret that Hamas popularity is based on most people having no prospects in Gaza. I would suggest robust internet and airdropped playstations so at least the young ones can whittle away their time gaming instead of joining shooting clubs to feel a sense of belonging.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 07:46:09 You misunderstood my post, I'm not expecting you to solve the problem, just observing a very obvious flaw in it. Allegedly you understand the folly of repeating the same thing and expecting different results.
jergul large member	Mon Oct 09 08:06:46 Nimi There are no flaws to my thinking in this instance. Genocide is not on the table is the premise. But Israel has to do something. So punitive actions and degrade Hamas. Again. The return to status quo after that has to be based on Israel finding out what the hell went wrong, then strengthen its posture to make sure it is unlikely to go wrong again. Hamas operations will happen again. The trick is nipping them in the bud. I get that you are advocating genocide. The final solution to the Gaza question so to speak. Sad that you lack the moral fortitude to just come out and say so directly. Ah well, we cannot all have the courage of our convictions :).
jergul large member	Mon Oct 09 08:07:49 And thank you for the compliment of copying my argument once again. Shucks bro. I am touched :).
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 08:19:55 "I get that you are advocating genocide." You idea was just obviously stupid and a repetition of the steps that got things to where they are. The other obvious choice was already mentioned when I pointed out you were being stupid. You can also not turn off the water and electricity. Also, obviously, ethnic cleansing doesn't need to be genocidal. It's not your fault you're stupid guligul :) I must have touched a nerve, if you are taking credit for a saying that has existed since, well forever. Slightly more delusional then that time you claimed to have invented pie chart mechanics, 12.5% by 2020! The difference is that, this isn't even linear reasoning, it's circular madness! lol :) But it was a question, not an argument. Do you understand "your own" argument that you invented yesterday and that I am "copying"?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 08:25:33 Also, I give you compliments when they are due, you know that, I am fair. You don't need to read in compliments into what I am saying, you wouldn't want to presume on our friendship.
Paramount Member	Mon Oct 09 08:33:21 ” You either kill the wasp, or you leave it alone.” Cool story. So the German Nazis did one of the two correct things then? They could have left the jews alone, but they chose to kill them.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 08:40:05 You clearly didn't get the analogy, if you think the Germans killed the wasp. They tried killing the jews, but all they managed to do was to stir the hornets nest :D Funny enough, that teacher's (it's a 100% true story btw) father, was an German officer involved in the assassination attempt on Hitler. Or so he said.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 08:48:49 Obviously the intellectual capacity to appreciate Machiavelli is really low among dysfunctional autists. You are total savages if you interpret what he and that teacher said, as compelling you to kill things. If for whatever reason you can't crush your adversary (unconditional surrender), you should take caution to not merely wound him. The context is war and conflict, you can choose peace and diplomacy, but if you go to war, you better not leave a humiliated enemy with a wounded ego that will fester. That is this conflict in a nutshell. 70 years of swatting and leaving wounded wasps.
Asgard Member	Mon Oct 09 08:49:52 So it appears there are 1 destroyed hizballah unit that attempted to infiltrate from Lebanon, and a second active combat over there with another unit
Rugian Member	Mon Oct 09 08:53:29 Sounds like Hezbollah is being a bit half-assed about this, no? Still seems more performance than substance.
Paramount Member	Mon Oct 09 10:17:18 ‪When Serbia attacked a refugee camp during the war on the Balkans, it was enough for NATO to intervene and start bombing Serbia. Now that Nazi Israel is bombing the Gaza refugee camp – I wonder when NATO will start to bomb Israel?
Seb Member	Mon Oct 09 10:29:57 Paramount: "‪When Serbia attacked a refugee camp" 1. Gaza isn't a refugee camp or under UN protection. 2. Serbia didn't just attack it, it went in there and set about systematically killing every Muslim male, whether adult or child. 3. There were no active Bosnian forces in the camp or attacks being launched from it.
Paramount Member	Mon Oct 09 10:30:30 I suppose events in Gaza and Israel will show everyone how ridiculous it was to accuse Russia of genocide and targeting civilians. More civilians will die there in a couple of weeks than have been killed in 20 months of fighting in Ukraine. http://x.c...?s=61&t=C7YI8upxCqhyhPMRv9y0zg
murder Member	Mon Oct 09 10:35:46 "Iran warned us ahead of time so they wouldnt kill any Americans. This was them saving face after we killed one of their generals." Oh well then I guess it's OK, and US casualties don't really matter. I guess if you're a Trumper, traumatic brain injuries aren't that serious anyway.
jergul large member	Mon Oct 09 10:46:05 Seb Gaza does have several refugee camps. 8 all told under UNRWA pervue.
jergul large member	Mon Oct 09 10:49:36 Nimi Comparing populations you dislike with insects is par for the genocidal course. I find it distasteful and inane. The reason steps are repeated is because there are no other non-genocidal steps that can be taken. The path is a given. The word you are looking for is impasse btw. You are welcome!
Paramount Member	Mon Oct 09 10:51:06 Seb, ” 1. Gaza isn't a refugee camp or under UN protection.” UNRWA recognizes facilities in 58 designated refugee camps in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee_camps ”2. Serbia didn't just attack it, it went in there and set about systematically killing every Muslim male, whether adult or child.” Looks like what Israel is doing. ” 3. There were no active Bosnian forces in the camp or attacks being launched from it.” How do you know? Were you there? But perhaps Serbia wanted to make sure that the people living in the camps wouldn’t take up arms against Serbia ever again. It looks that that is Israel’s goal now. Killing the wasp. So will NATO start to bomb Israel soon you think?
Seb Member	Mon Oct 09 10:59:15 Paramount: "Gaza Strip" Yes, there are refugee camps IN the gaza strip. You claimed the Gaza Strip was a refugee camp. And the refugee camps do not have an armed UN force controlling them. "Looks like what Israel is doing." No it doesn't. Wake me up when Israeli ground forces have gone in and, in front of UN peacekeepers, systematically shot 8000 unarmed and restrained men and boys. Then you can compare it to Srebrenica. So far in this recent event, the only thing that looks a bit like the kinds of things that got Serbian bombed is the deliberate slaughter of unarmed civilians at close quarters, and carrying a bunch of as hostages to deter bombing. And that was done by Hamas. "How do you know?" Because the camp was controlled by western military forces (Dutch) who had ensured that there were no armed factions within the camp - dutch forces that were attacked over several days by the Serbian forces. Which is in part why they got bombed.
obaminated Member	Mon Oct 09 11:53:09 9 Americans who were killed in the attack. Not expecting that to change bidens stance of verbal support and not physical support. The political left in the states would flip their shit if their president helped bomb hamas. Plus, in general, it's better to let gaza be an Israeli problem (with no solution). If we got involved we would be on the hook to find a solution and beyond expulsion, there is no solution. As far as bingo goes. Jergul was out about 12 hours into the first day. Anyone who said Israel would stick to surgical and precision strikes at gaza with a major ground invasion is about to be out as well. You don't mass 170k troops and publicly tell every civilian gazan to leave now or else unless you plan on going door to door and killing every male above the age of 14 (?) Holding a gun. I'm riding a dark horse at forced resettlement to somewhere called not gaza.
Seb Member	Mon Oct 09 12:04:39 Obaminated: They are going in on the ground, but they have designated a few key target locations. Bibi's words better translate as something like "We know where Hamas is based, and we urge every civillian to leave there". He's not calling for everyone to leave Gaza. He knows they cannot.
Paramount Member	Mon Oct 09 12:20:34 There are reports on that Hamas is using US weapons against Israel. Weapons that US gave to Ukraine. If true, it means that Rugina and Sam has helped (with their tax money) to arm Hamas so they can kill Israelis more efficiently. What’s your reaction to this?
jergul large member	Mon Oct 09 12:42:46 Obam Not what I said. Do you have to use so many debating fallacies in a single post? Israel has to mobilize to deter Hezb. The IDF has used Iron Dom missiles like candy and has greatly depleted its stock of missiles. Hezb has an actual dangerous missile and drone arsenal. You may want to factor that into your thinking. Israel certainly is.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 13:00:20 http://the...as-kept-in-cages-like-animals/ Israeli toddlers, in cages.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 13:01:15 Fake?
Seb Member	Mon Oct 09 13:08:37 Paramount: "There are reports on that Hamas is using US weapons against Israel. Weapons that US gave to Ukraine." Sure, on RT I bet. "If true," It isn't. Provide proof.
Paramount Member	Mon Oct 09 13:11:30 How do you know it is Israeli children? The US has put children in cages also. I think it is part of our Western values, so it’s no big deal.
obaminated Member	Mon Oct 09 13:12:33 @nim - id bet fake. Or staged. But then again I thought a lot of isis' public displays of inhumanity was staged. Certainly hamas would want to put toddlers in view to deter Israeli missiles and gun fire. And yeah, weapons found off hamas killed at that music festival had them with soviet era rifles and smart phones. Haven't seen any evidence or videos of hamas using anything us based. Seems like a rumor started by pro rus to create a narrative that ukraines corrupt government was funneling weapons to hamas.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Oct 09 13:22:55 Rumors i am hearing. Reserve call up raised to 300k. Mainly because too many israelis are pissed they are not being called up. This is medium confidence. It has been communicated to hezbollah that if they enter the war so does the united states. This is pretty high confidence as it matches bidens public statements exactly.
Paramount Member	Mon Oct 09 13:33:13 Israel has already bombed Lebanon/Hezbollah. So how can they not retaliate on Israel now?
Seb Member	Mon Oct 09 13:35:34 Sam: That would be my thinking, and lends confidence to the idea that Israel plans major ground operations in Gaza. May have had it a bit backwards before - rather than intel about Hezbollah making a move it might have ben an Israeli ask for the US to provide a very vocal commitment and deterrent in being so they can commit everything to Gaza without having to worry about Hezbollah.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 13:37:03 Hamas leader has said they are going to execute a hostage for every Palestinian killed.
Seb Member	Mon Oct 09 13:38:39 BTW, it's been twenty years since Sharon withdrew from Gaza to deliberately kill the peace process. I did say that the consequences of walking away from a two state solution would be this. The Israelis have made sure to alienate, discredit or just plane arrest every credible Palestinian leader that isn't a terrorist. And now they find they have no choice but to go back into Gaza - an area they withdrew from not because of benevolence but because they could neither police it nor stomach the losses. This is what twenty years of pursuing a dead end policy looks like.
Paramount Member	Mon Oct 09 13:38:55 Secretary General of the Iraqi Badr Organization: If Washington intervenes in the war between Israel and Palestine, we will strike all American targets in the region http://x.c...?s=61&t=C7YI8upxCqhyhPMRv9y0zg So, Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria, Iran, Iraq vs Nazi Israel and USA?
Seb Member	Mon Oct 09 13:39:10 Nim: Then they are going to run out of hostages very quickly.
Rugian Member	Mon Oct 09 13:40:44 Mia no! "OnlyFans star Mia Khalifa celebrates Israel attacks, urges Hamas to film ‘horizontal’ on phones By Isabel Keane Published Oct. 9, 2023, 9:23 a.m. ET Former porn star Mia Khalifa sparked outrage after emphatically expressing support for Hamas following its surprise attack on Israel — even urging members of the terrorist group to “flip their phones and film” their incursion on Israel “horizontal.” The adult entertainer-turned-OnlyFans star, who has long called Israel an apartheid state, drew ire after posting a series of controversial tweets since Saturday’s surprise attack, which has claimed the lives of at least 800 Israelis. “If you can look at the situation in Palestine and not be on the side of Palestinians, then you are on the wrong side of apartheid, and history will show that in Time,” Khalifa wrote on X on Saturday. In a separate post on X, Khalifa called a photo of Hamas terrorists a “Renaissance painting.” She drew additional criticism after writing, “Can someone please tell the freedom fighters in Palestine to flip their phones and film horizontal.” She also criticized Kylie Jenner for posting a since-deleted message in support of Israel to her Instagram account, writing, “If true journalism exists, the next person to talk to Kylie Jenner will ask for her opinion on geopolitical tensions in the Middle East and not break eye contact until she can string one coherent sentence together since she wants to take a stance to her 400M followers so badly.” http://nyp...as-to-film-attacks-horizontal/ Looks like my next fap to that video of her and her Muslim stepmom getting railed by her boyfriend is going to be an angry one.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Oct 09 13:41:52 And livestream each one nim. That will gain them tons of support(except the usual terrorist sympathizers) Plus theyll be out of hostages in about 6 hours at this rate. I'd expect israel sf will attemp some hostsge rescue raids asap but we have to consider all hostsges dead at this point. Just go in blasting.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 13:41:54 Hamas official says open to discussions over truce with Israel. http://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1711441586846916943 lol
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 13:45:24 Seb & Sam I am surprised they even said something so silly. It was Abu Obaida, the masked spokesperson of Hamas that said it too.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 13:45:45 Stupid and savage is perhaps better words.
obaminated Member	Mon Oct 09 13:48:49 I suspect all the death threats from radical Muslim men got to her and she decides its safer to side with Israel than angry Muslim men. Also, just as a business decision she fucked up. She has been trying to get her sports podcast popular/gain traction. It wasn't going great but last I heard it was still going. I don't think many sports man are going to want to listen to that sort of rhetoric. Who would have thought Sasha grey would be the most successful post porn?
obaminated Member	Mon Oct 09 13:49:51 "I am willing to negotiate!"
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 13:51:05 Word on X spaces is that there are still towns where the bodies have not been recovered or counted. Relative to Israel's population, this is 2 orders magnitude worse than 9/11. Final death toll is probably 1300-1500. I hope you all touched grass and took your chill pill.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 13:53:06 Next order of business is to realize that, specially for Europe, the evil that we are witnessing in Gaza, exists here as well. All those people celebrating in the streets of Europe and US, are cut from the same ideological cloth as the savages in Gaza.
obaminated Member	Mon Oct 09 14:00:32 I think domestic Muslim terrorism is a bigger threat to the European homeland than here in the states. The people defending hamas here are upper class white liberals, largely. The people defending hamas in Europe are first generation immigrants from North Africa.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Oct 09 14:07:01 Ya that makes me happy that the us has mexicans and venezualeans pooring into our nations and not europes hordes. Sure a mexican might scalp an opposing drug lord from time to time but thier behaviour towards innocents is generally orders of magnitude more civilized than what europe is dealing with. Our bad immigrants all are here already :(
Sam Adams Member	Mon Oct 09 14:08:41 Back to the hamas war... things are escalating a bit along the hezbollah border and iranian militias in iraq, yemen, and bahrain are getting upity. ...when does the US start calling up reserves?
obaminated Member	Mon Oct 09 14:12:14 I think Biden will sit on his hands for a long while if it is only militias and terror organizations and not actual countries attacking Israel. The political will on the left is next to zero to join a war with Israel against Muslim hordes. The political will on the right for bombing is there but unless we see massive deaths of Israeli forces I don't think anyone wants to see US marines knocking down doors in gaza.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 14:57:24 Man, there is a video of terrorists, shooting a dog. :,( Kill. Them. All.
obaminated Member	Mon Oct 09 15:04:55 That holocaust survivor's execution is going to inspire a lot of noble and just bloodshed.
Seb Member	Mon Oct 09 15:54:10 Nim: And I also see plenty of people willing the destruction and death of the population of Gaza. Over a half of which are children. People say and do horrible stupid things when they are exposed to shocking brutality. Israel itself just announced "No electricity, no water, no food, we are fighting animals". Gaza has been under a blockade for 20 years. All those people in their 20s and 30s were children that also grew up under that blockade. So no, calm the fuck down. Equating people waving palestinan flags right now as the same as Hamas is like thinking Israel's defense minister is actually planning to starve to death a million kids. People have trouble contextualising things.
Seb Member	Mon Oct 09 16:01:40 "Oh, I didn't mean the kids of course. I had in mind all angry rapist islamic terrorists with beards and turbans going 'dirka dirka islamic jihad'". Similarly: "I was sort of imagining all these Jewish off duty soldiers and settler's revelling in bulldozing Palestinian homes, cutting down Palestinian olive groves and building a swimming pool then shooting Palestinian kids for stealing from their garden". Israel has no choice but to go in and destroy Hamas, and they are right to do that. But the current context that has empowered Hamas and the refusal to meaningfully engage in peace is Israel's; so using this - the inevitable consequences of two decades of refusal to engage in a peace process - to demonise an entire people, justify that failure, and to further expand that policy failure to race relations in Europe is insanity.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 16:07:45 2 hostages have been executed. Seb There is no comparison between Israel and Hamas in terms of violating, human decency and savagery. Hamas has in many ways out done Islamic State, in terms of sheer barbarity. This conflict, the 70 years of it, is 80% the fault of Muslims and their terrorist religion. So, yes, those people waving those flags, given the chance, given the numbers will behave just as barbaric. I am not at all confused about this. "So no, calm the fuck down." No. There is a time to be calm and there is a time to light things up. Not knowing the difference and being able to "read the room", makes you a worse human, not a better one.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 16:10:00 Allegedly, 2 hostages have been executed. The video looks familiar to me. Could be an old IS video.
Rugian Member	Mon Oct 09 16:14:48 The European Union is as morally bankrupt as ever: "EU backpedals on announced aid cut to Palestinians A senior European source tells The Times of Israel that the decision announced earlier today by European Union Commissioner Oliver Varhelyi to immediately sever all EU aid to the Palestinians will not be implemented, due to opposition from member states. Varhelyi is a diplomat from Hungary, which takes a much more hawkish approach toward the Israeli-Palestinian conflict than many of the 27 other members of the EU. The senior European source speculates that Varhelyi’s decision will be walked back tomorrow when the EU’s foreign policy chief Josep Borell meets with European foreign ministers." http://www...unced-aid-cut-to-palestinians/ Thanks for the support you pieces of shit.
jergul large member	Mon Oct 09 16:16:49 Seb Tsk. This is very emotional for Nimi. Hamas killed a dog (allegedly). No stone can go unturned.
Seb Member	Mon Oct 09 16:19:57 Nim: "Israel and Hamas in terms of violating, human decency and savagery" Did I say there was? What I said was there's equivalence in overheated language by those who support Palestinian liberation and the overheated language of those who support Israel's right to defend itself (and even Israeli ministers). I merely insist that if you are going to be autistic and take everyone who waves a Palestinian flag in Europe as intentionally endorsing Hamas raping and murdering a child, then you also take Israel's govt so literally and parse those statements at face value: the Israeli govt wants to see infants die of thirst and hunger. Basically, calm the fuck down and stop trying to instigate a bout of religious purges in Europe. Also you should recognise that the people most likely to take you up on that will be as interested in recognising you and your family as "European" as Hamas is in sorting German tourists from Jewish soldiers. "This conflict, the 70 years of it, is 80% the fault of Muslims and their terrorist religion." That's bullshit, because in the same period there have been numerous conflicts involving Muslims that have been resolved. The basic problem here is that Israel doesn't want a two state solution, and it doesn't want a one state solution either. And that leaves us with exactly where we are today. No solution, ungoverned spaces full of young, angry men with no hope for a future who can't even emmigrate. Of course a proportion of those will end up rabid dogs needing to be put down. But then, don't create an environment which favours rabid dogs.
obaminated Member	Mon Oct 09 16:21:40 Ffs. There is a reason both Israel and Egypt have held their blockade in place. It wasn't arbitrarily decided upon to punish Palestinians. Imagine being the guy defending during a home invasion who tries to tell the other defenders to "calm the fuck down". Israel has been pretty calm. They are getting all their ducks in a row for what comes next. Which will be the systematic destruction of hamas and anyone who swears allegiance to hamas. That is a calm and rational response to this ongoing assault.
Rugian Member	Mon Oct 09 16:22:59 "But the current context that has empowered Hamas and the refusal to meaningfully engage in peace is Israel's" Enough of this moral equivocation already. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. Hamas seized control of it in 2007. The last time Israel tried to find a meaningful peaceful resolution, the Palestinians responded with the Second Intifada. The entire history of the State of Israel involves one attack after another by enemies who deny its right to exist. Israel could literally say "Gaza is an independent state now" and the Palestinians would still be calling for murdering all Jews living between the river and the sea. There is no compromising with such barbarians.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 16:28:37 Seb "take everyone who waves a Palestinian flag in Europe as intentionally endorsing Hamas raping and murdering a child" This is just the latest brick in the wall of Islamic savagery. If you have no paid attention or educated yourself, that is a you problem. I have been very clear about where I stand, at every turn.
jergul large member	Mon Oct 09 16:31:10 Not so much. You lack the moral fortitude to come out an say you favour genocide, but simply let the reader draw their own conclusions. The final solution to the Gaza question indeed. Anything else would be folly. You are like one big and stupid dog whistle.
obaminated Member	Mon Oct 09 16:35:03 *Jergul prodding for attention intensifies*
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 16:38:20 Seb "That's bullshit, because in the same period there have been numerous conflicts involving Muslims that have been resolved." lol :) Do all muslims rape all the time seb? Does a broken clock show the correct time twice? Does a terrorist religion also have peace on occasion? You have the reasoning of a child.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 16:46:43 Jergul Already explained it for you and Paramount. The conversation moved on in your absence. Stop defending terrorist and supporting rapist and murderers. You did this with the Iranian regime, you are doing it with Russia and now with Hamas.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 16:50:21 Oh look guys, I am calm and stoic, because none of this affects me, and also, I'm an autistic lizard person, I have transcended emotions and stuff. -Sebgul
obaminated Member	Mon Oct 09 16:54:18 NBC news crew takes cover from hamas artillery barage. http://www...e_cover_during_a_hamas_mortar/ I don't imagine hamas was aiming for anything specific. Just their usual "let's hit something" tactic that is illegal but forgotten/dismissed by fellows who like to feign neutrality.
obaminated Member	Mon Oct 09 16:54:20 NBC news crew takes cover from hamas artillery barage. http://www...e_cover_during_a_hamas_mortar/ I don't imagine hamas was aiming for anything specific. Just their usual "let's hit something" tactic that is illegal but forgotten/dismissed by fellows who like to feign neutrality.
Rugian Member	Mon Oct 09 17:02:34 "Just their usual "let's hit something" tactic that is illegal but forgotten/dismissed by fellows who like to feign neutrality." Between jergul and Seb, I'm 99% sure one of them once made the argument that Muslims are justified in firing haphazardly on civilian areas because the US/Israel prevent them from acquiring guided munitions.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 17:05:10 "I merely insist that if you are going to be autistic and take everyone who waves a Palestinian flag in Europe as intentionally endorsing Hamas raping and murdering a child, then you also take Israel's govt so literally and parse those statements at face value: the Israeli govt wants to see infants die of thirst and hunger." See, this is the problem. I am not the one making the autistic take, because I am judging the flag waving savages and Israel in the greater context of the history of Israel, the history of Palestinian terrorism and Islamic savagery and terrorism. So when that minister says something that sounds crazy, I know whatever crazy is in him, will be tempered by a democratic, pluralistic society that is governed by laws and institutions. When the flag waving terrorist supporters chant "Khaybar Khaybar ya yahud" I know they are governed by their savage terrorist ideology. You are the autist here demanding me to equate two *completely different* things, because on a very superficial level, they sound the same.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Oct 09 17:23:50 "Equating people waving palestinan flags right now as the same as Hamas" If you see a nazi concentration camp and immediatly after wave a german flag, you are a nazi and can be legitimately subjected to all the firepower we used on nazis. I fail to see how hamas is any different now.
jergul large member	Mon Oct 09 17:42:14 Sammy The Hamas operation is more comparable to Polish pogroms in 1945(!). No need to go full hyperbole. Obam Attentionseeking? Nah, I will happily just notepad here for full threads if left to my own devices. I do care about input, but for entertainment reasons exclusively. Fuel for thought is easy enough to find just lurking. Nimi Seb and I are both happily married and have been in relationships for decades. Find a different slur that might gain some traction. Stoicism has nothing to do with it. We simply recognize that it is complicated man, and that genocide is not on the table.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 17:56:11 And this is the same seb, that was going crazy over Russias invasion of Ukraine, likening Russia and Putin to Nazi germany and Hitler. He was fucking livid. But now, for inexplicable reasons, we should all "calm the fuck down". What is the difference exactly? Oh right, the people doing the killing are muslims and they are some kind of underdog in this fight. Well the dog has rabies, doesn't matter if it is small, it will still kill you.
Seb Member	Mon Oct 09 17:57:33 Obaminated: "There is a reason both Israel and Egypt have held their blockade in place. It wasn't arbitrarily decided upon to punish Palestinians." Of course an aspect is to punish them. Explicitly so. If it was purely about security they wouldn't ration basic materials. There are numerous explicit collective punishment policies. And these started before Hamas took over and we a big reason why Hamas gained support and were able to take over. Just now, they've cut the water off again. That's not a security measure. Clean water is a basic human need. Half the population are children. Does cutting off the water degrade Hamas's military capability? No. The intent is to punish the population for "harbouring" Hamas. There's no point beating around the bush Obaminated. Just like it is stupid to think Hamas is a liberation movement that can make peace with Israel, it's stupid also to pretend Israel isn't engaged in classic colonial policies including collective punishment. "Imagine being the guy defending during a home invasion who tries to tell the other defenders to "calm the fuck down"." Nim lives in Sweden, and the people he's screaming about as a threat are a bunch of third generation Europeans that stupidly think Hamas are freedom fighters and that the people who just got murdered were all cackling evil Israeli storm troopers. He's not defending himself from a home invasion. He's a guy, hearing about someone several thousand miles away suffering a home invasion, seeing some kids laugh about it, and calling for the kids to be treated as home invaders. Or put it this way, imagine there was some mad grandad insisting that those idiot students in Harvard that signed that letter are actually all Islamic Fundamentalists intent on murdering Christians. That's Nim right now. Yes, he needs to calm the fuck down. Israel on the other hand, who are actually being attacked and despite their stupid colonial occupation, have the right to defend themselves from terrorists, need to go and wipe out Hamas. Hope that clears it up for you. Rugian: "Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. Hamas seized control of it in 2007." Indeed. They withdrew in 2005, blew up a bunch of infrastructure, and imposed an embargo. This weakened Fatah both politically (no way for Fatah to improve people's livelihood in the strip) and materially (no way for Fatah to bring in arms to fight off Hamas; while Hamas had racist support from Hezbollah and Iran. Hamas taking over control was the inevitable outcome of the "disengagement" policy plus embargo. "The last time Israel tried to find a meaningful peaceful resolution" That's caudally back to front. The camp David talks broke down July 25th (Ehud Barak's security requirements bring not much different from now: Israeli control of most of the west bank territory, settlements). Sharon, opposed to the idea of peace made his provocative visit to the temple mount on the 28th September. The Infantada started afterwards. "Israel could literally say "Gaza is an independent state now" " If Gaza was an independent state, what Israel has been doing to it since 2005 when it unilaterally withdrew would be an act of war. "and the Palestinians would still be calling for murdering all Jews living between the river and the sea." Hamas would. And there are certainly Jews that call for driving all the Palestinians into the sea. "The entire history of the State of Israel involves one attack after another by enemies who deny its right to exist." That's pretty much the history of the Palestinian Territories too. Nim: You trying to start religious conflict in Europe absolutely does effect me and it makes me fucking angry. Not least because the good, white people of Europe that would take you up on that proposition will absolutely hang you as an illegal immigrant Muslim based on the colour of your skin, and you are too fucking stupid to recognise this fact. Sam: "If you see a nazi concentration camp and immediatly after wave a german flag, you are a nazi and can be legitimately subjected to all the firepower we used on nazis." Sounds like you are inviting me to drop a Grand Slam on your house?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 18:01:34 Jergul "Find a different slur that might gain some traction." Already explained it for you yesterday. I said for you this is a LARP. "and that genocide is not on the table." So, then you should definitely not proscribe torturing civilian populations then, as you were doing. I am sorry your ego was hurt, by me pointing out, with words you had used the day before, that what you were saying was the definition of being a retard. The effect you are having on our social and physical world is retarded Jergul. Please stop, you have agency, you are malleable, you can change - Use the tools are your disposal! If you are going to remain the same no matter what, what is the point of these interactions? There I am again, using your words :)
jergul large member	Mon Oct 09 18:08:11 This is a larp for all of us. After all, what fun would it be to be an insecure first generation immigrant just trying to fit in? That would not get much traction. The frailty of the human condition is no fun at all. Nowhere have I proscribed torturing anyone. I am firmly against that. I will give you credit for the argument however. You definitely have not copied me. I have never made random claims like that. So good for you! And yes. You did quote me again towards the end. I am indeed maleable. Now is not the time to raise complicated issues. I have raised them before, but now is really not the time or place to do so again. All I am saying is that the Israel will not commit genocide and that the Palestinian toll will be below 10k killed A monster might think this contentious. But you are not a monster....are you?
Rugian Member	Mon Oct 09 18:15:54 "Indeed. They withdrew in 2005, blew up a bunch of infrastructure, and imposed an embargo." Yeah, why did they impose the embargo again? Oh right, because the Gazans couldn't stop themselves from continually attacking Jews. "This weakened Fatah both politically (no way for Fatah to improve people's livelihood in the strip) and materially (no way for Fatah to bring in arms to fight off Hamas; while Hamas had racist support from Hezbollah and Iran." Fatah lost the elections because it had garnered a reputation for massive corruption. Apparently, the Palestinian populace thought that the best way to combat that was to elect a group that denies Israel's right to exist. You can't say they didn't ask for what they got. "The camp David talks broke down July 25th (Ehud Barak's security requirements bring not much different from now: Israeli control of most of the west bank territory, settlements)." Yes, these were reasonable and necessary security guaranties that the Palestinians should have been prepared to make. It shouldn't have been entirely on Israel to have offered concessions (it was the one granting the PA a path to statehood in the first place after all). "Sharon, opposed to the idea of peace made his provocative visit to the temple mount on the 28th September. The Infantada started afterwards." This only goes to speak to the unseriousness of the Palestinians in wanting peace. If Sharon visiting the Temple Mount justified the brutal murder of Israelis, then they were never legitimately seeking a lasting modus vivendi with Israel. "If Gaza was an independent state, what Israel has been doing to it since 2005 when it unilaterally withdrew would be an act of war." Gazan attacks on Israel also constitute an act of war. Here's a serious question for you. How would either a two-state or one-state solution actually work, in your mind? If Israel opts for a two-state solution, then Hamas could lean on its increased legitimacy as the governing power of a sovereign country in order to fuel its ongoing terror war against Israel. If Israel opts for a one-state solution, then Hamas gets unrestricted assets to conduct terrorist attacks on their "fellow" Israeli civilians. You see why Israel has never bothered to make either one of those choices? "Hamas would." Yes, the group that the Palestinians writ large voted into office. "That's pretty much the history of the Palestinian Territories too." It's actually not. Palestinians could have had their own state had not the Arabs decided to try and wipe Israel off the map in 1948. Oh well. They fucked around and found out.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 18:20:03 Seb "You trying to start religious conflict in Europe absolutely does effect me and it makes me fucking angry." People like you imported people who are part of a religious conflict to our countries. I understand, it's my fault, for pointing out your folly. "will absolutely hang you as an illegal immigrant Muslim based on the colour of your skin" You are delusional, the gall to tell me that living in Sweden, as innocent people with the color of my skin are shot and blown up, by other people with the color of my skin. Your understanding of the lives of people with "the color of my skin", is crude, fare cruder than the population average of, at least this country. People understand ideas and culture here. Even people on UP, whom you would put in this category, understand ideas, culture and class matter more than skin color. So, your outdated understanding of how the world works is not impressive. You bore me. So, as someone with the color of my skin, I find people like you, who still have not figured out ass from hand, a far bigger threat to me and my children than all these supposed people combined.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 09 18:26:24 "jergul large member Mon Oct 09 18:08:11 This is a larp for all of us." I don't consent. What is the safe word??? "jergul large member Mon Oct 09 06:51:26 You are not supposed to feed the hand that rapes and kills. Targetting water and sewages systems has been done before by other countries without legal consequence, so seems established as a *legitimate way of waging war*." And my argument was that, this is a incredibly stupid way of waging war, citing a story about a wasp and Machiavelli. It is the way this war has been waged, that now led to over a 1000 civilians raped and murdered. Then you went, "waaaaa you support genocide!" And then you said "ADMIT YOU SUPPORT GENOCIDE YOU COWARD!" It's a re-run of "Muh edgelording around social darwinism". You were being stupid then as you are being stupid now.
jergul large member	Mon Oct 09 18:31:05 Nimi Sure, larp an internet persona pretending to be a rather frail human. You have no strings to tie you down. I should easily be able to tell when you start doing that. Impasse was the word you need in your vocabulary.There is no fix barring genocide and genocide is off the table. You do dog whistle quite a lot. I suppose you think it smert.
jergul large member	Mon Oct 09 18:31:55 In sum: Nimi wants to be a real boy :)
Rugian Member	Mon Oct 09 18:32:33 There's an easy solution to this entire conflict: Have Oslo resettle the Gazan population throughout the Norwegian countryside
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