Utopia Talk / Politics / Israel interim crescit Gazae ruinis

Rugian Member	Fri Oct 20 09:14:46 "When the Gazans had left their city the Israelis levelled to the ground all the public and private edifices in every direction, and a single hour gave over to destruction and ruin the work of those thirty-five centuries during which Gaza had stood... The fall of Gaza led to the growth of Israel." Link to previous: http://uto...hread=92254&time=1697804526873
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 20 09:17:53 http://x.com/LanceForman/status/1714761685947298230?s=20 Palestinians tortured a family, including kids, by cutting off fingers and gouging out an eye.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 09:27:11 Jergul: I see your recommendations as a particular subset of mine. We probably agree mostly in what we would try if we were God emperor. Israel isn't going to be as worried about international law so I'm largely looking at it from what I think a vaguely competent Israeli govt ought to do based on Israel's perspective. "you have the Lebanese civil war as an example for why Palestians will avoid fractional fighting to Israel's benefit, if not directly on its behalf." Yes, which is why Israel needs to frame it as liberating Gaza from Hamas. And even then it only works politically if you can bring in Suni Arab state sponsors/guarantors (in the political as well as financial) sense. Saudi helping Fateh kick Hamas out of Gaza with Israeli support plays differently to Israel supporting Fateh to destroy Hamas. But that requires choreography that doesn't include steps like Israeli president denying there's such a thing as Palestinian civilians, or the defence secretary cutting off food, power and water while describing Gazans in general as animals. Murder: Demonstrably not true. Hamas is Iran banks, theocratic and opposed to the existence of Israel. Fatah is secular, had recognised Israel, wants negotiations. Rugian: Describing the world as it is may upset you. The west will support destroying Hamas. They will not support needlessly starving six year olds to death. You can say that the failure of the west to endorse the latter is a great moral failing if you like. But that's because you share more of your morality with Hamas than with the rest of us. The only difference is exactly who you want to kill.
Rugian Member	Fri Oct 20 09:28:34 Muslims are not fit to work in American government. "Secretary of State Antony Blinken told his staffers Thursday night that he knew many were shaken professionally and personally by the Israel-Hamas war — a message he sent amid unhappiness among some Muslim and Arab employees over how the U.S. is approaching the crisis." http://www...-war-state-department-00122661
Rugian Member	Fri Oct 20 09:34:11 Seb Thank God you weren't in charge of the UK during WW2. You would have never had thr stomach to do what it took to defeat the Nazis. Nobody wants to have unrestricted warfare forced upon them. But sometimes that is what is required to defeat an enemy. Your claims about Palestinians wanting peace are borderline lies at this point. The Palestinians have never seriously wanted peace, and they still don't today. What they want to do is slaughter Jews, as they have repeatedly demonstrated over and over again.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 09:34:28 But here's the reality: Israel's rhetoric has reduced the political scope of Western leaders that answer to an electorate that largely thinks you're views are mad and bad Rugian. That's just an observable fact. Don't shoot the messenger. Or do. I don't care what an impotent online American fascist thinks that much. Israel can either have broader Western support, or it can publicly say bloodthirsty things that fire up Netenyahu's base and appeal to you, who by and large doesn't represent much vote share. Those are the choices. Personally, if I were in Netenyahu's shoes and had his apparent mentality I would speak softly then go ahead and do the brutal stuff I planned to do all along, confident the Western leaders wouldn't make it an issue until it became an issue, and by then it would be done anyway.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 20 09:37:41 NYT intentionally trying to get israelis killed: http://twi...us/1715273451752038509/photo/1
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 09:38:47 Rugian: "Thank God you weren't in charge of the UK during WW2." No, thank God you weren't. A great deal of securing the backing of the US required the UK to downplay it's actual foreign policy objectives (preserve the empire) with high minded stuff about freedom and democracy. You, had you been imbued with the values of the UK establishment, would be screaming at the US about the importance of maintaining the white man's rule over colonial possessions; thus further alienating a US establishment already deeply skeptical of involving itself in a war for colonial empires. Then you would run home crying that the Americans were evil and supporting fascism and blaming the UK for NAZIism. Just shockingly incompetent
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 20 09:40:46 http://x.com/visegrad24/status/1715307782587433099?s=20 Palestinians are not full-functioning humans it seems.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Oct 20 09:41:52 "I would speak softly then go ahead and do the brutal stuff I planned to do all along" Classic seb behavior. If you are going to kill people, do it with a smile. You can find this in his own behavior, as well as me pointing out that this changes nothing material about the nature of the conversation. I may have even used the comparison, you can tell someone you are going to kill them, politely and with a smile on your face. Sebs people think words change reality after all.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 09:42:34 Unrestricted warfare is needed when you are fighting an industrialised enemy with a fully mobilised economy. Israel is now free dealing with managing a colonial insurgency. Hamas's military capabilities fall far short of an industrialised power, and its military capabilities aren't derived from the Gazan economy. So pounding the rubble of Gaza is not a viable strategy, in the same way you wouldn't be able to defeat NAZI Germany with an economic blockade. Tactics and strategy. The right tools for the right job etc.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 20 09:43:18 Why would maintaining white ruled colonies possibly bug anyone in the US in 1939? We still dont let the savages in PR or guam vote. Rofl seb you dunce.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 09:44:39 But let's be clear, you don't mean unrestricted warfare like "destroy the Gazan economy", what I think you really mean is something more like Germany's solution to dealing with non-Aryans: exterminate them all. And I don't think Israel is interested in that either.
Allahuakbar Member	Fri Oct 20 09:44:53 <3 Greta http://twitter.com/GretaThunberg/status/1715355502337499332
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 20 09:45:04 I think seb just isnt that intelligent. Like these arguments dont have the slightest scrap of logic or reason.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 09:46:01 Basically, if you want to go for the WW2 strategy (if that's your diagnosis) rather than bombing Gaza, Israel needs to be area bombing Iran. That ain't going to happen though.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 09:48:18 Sam: It bothered Americans a lot. The American Establishment had a very strong view that the British Empire was an economic rival, related their own rebellion against Imperial rule to colonial rebellions. They definitely wouldn't be up for fighting a war against Germany and Britain over who gets to control Africa and Asia.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 09:49:45 And indeed that is why you sat out the war for so long until Japan attacked you. It took a huge amount of British diplomacy to get lend lease agreed. Key to that was framing the conflict as one between democracy and fascism rather than two Imperial powers.
jergul large member	Fri Oct 20 09:50:56 Nimi It was a conditional "If Israel commits genocide and forcibly displaces millions of people, then of course it is a rogue nuclear regime" I do not think Israel will commit genocide. But some of you do, so I am outlining one of the barriers. It would trigger a nuclear cascade. The NPT has a certain underlying logic that rests on nuclear powers being largely benign in their dealings with non nuclear powers. We pretend that this is true to avoid nuclear profilation, but some things will trigger a wave of nuclearization. Final solutions to the Gazan question are among those things. In sum, the quite unsatisfactory status quo existed for a reason. All alternatives suck more for one or all parties involved. That is also why we will most likely return to that status quo and remain there for as long as Israel likes. Israel has agency here as the first step towards a final settlement is Israel's physical reoccupation of Gaza to establish security there for the local population.
Rugian Member	Fri Oct 20 09:53:25 Seb If by "the electorate" you mean your chums in academia and the mainstream media, then sure. And I guess those Muslims that you allowed to colonize London are on your side as well. The rest of us think you're a fucking monster. You can try to glaze over that 1,400 dead number all you want, but it is the be-all-end-all determiner of who is in the right and wrong here. If someone had butchered 1,400 Brits in their homes, your entire country would be screaming for war and retribution. But because it didn't happen to you, you sit comfortably in your home and tsk tsk the Israelis for being angry enough to want a pound of flesh. You absolute fucking hypocrite.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 20 09:54:06 Eco activist and hamas terrorist. Nice resume. That will convince people of the virtue of your cause. More proof that the far left isnt actually concerned by global warming, they just want to use it as a tool to assist them in their nefarious social causes, in this case the removal of jews and their replacement with palestinians.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 09:56:04 Nim: "Classic seb behavior. If you are going to kill people, do it with a smile. You can find this in his own behavior, as well as me pointing out that this changes nothing material about the nature of the conversation. I may have even used the comparison, you can tell someone you are going to kill them, politely and with a smile on your face." Ok, so I think what Nim is saying is that if he was going to rob a bank, he thinks he would be most successful if he called first and tried to make an appointment to do so, then called the police and told them to. I absolutely applaud his honesty but I don't think I'm making myself an accessory to his crimes if I were to point out this isn't going to be a successful venture for him; though evidently he thinks so himself. But magical thinking has always been a hallmark of Nims incoherence: the belief that wishing things were so makes it so; and pointing out that things are not so must equally mean wishing them not so.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Oct 20 10:03:36 Acting in self-defense is like committing the crime of robbing a bank. Civilized people are not offended by the very understandable Israeli reaction and support them in their goal of destroying Hamas. The savages who are against Israel are going to be against Israel regardless, they are going to do what they do. Seb woke up yesterday to this conflict and missed out on the decades where Israel was speaking softly. Did not get the memo on the ambiguity that Israel has used historically when striking it's enemies. Seb has yet to internalize the scale of atrocities and has already moved on to the bad PR of collateral damages, because seb isn't that much different from what I described in the other thread: Of course Israel should be able to defend itself, and then it needs to commit suicide, so there can be peace.
jergul large member	Fri Oct 20 10:03:53 That is one of the huge flaws to the Western and Israeli approach. IF Hamas is a terrorist organization, Then its primary victims are Palestinians living under its terrorist regime. It is Israel's duty as an occupier to provide security to the Palestinian population. Defaulting on that defacto accepts Hamas is a resistance movement acting on behalf of the Palestinian people that sadly sometimes engages in terrorism that kills civilians. Alternatively all Palestinians are terrorists because they have not rid themselves of hamas while under rigerous Israeli perimeter control.
Rugian Member	Fri Oct 20 10:05:49 Seb You firebombed cities in World War 2. Your soldiers raped, looted, and tortured as they marched through Europe. You razed towns and villages in acts of reprisal. You wanted to use chemical weapons on Germany, and were only dissuaded from doing so because Germany had the ability to respond in kind. You approved of the use of atomic weapons. You sat by as your allies committed widespread ethnic cleansing. You were a-ok with redrawing the borders of Europe and penalizing the losing side. War is an inherently ugly business. You though from your ivory tower seem to have lost site of that fact and wrongly believe that war should be fought with rules and honor, even if the other side disdains those conventions. Its why you lost both Afghanistan and Iraq and its why Israel would be mad to listen to your dumb ass.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Oct 20 10:11:38 It's fascinating all these arm chair generals and arm chair lawyers, perfectly clueless about the "complicated" history of the conflict, un-ironically proscribing from the long list of things, already tried and failed. Occupy Gaza! Speak softly and do the nasty in silence! Turn off the water! Waaa genocide!
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 10:13:46 Rugian: I mean the electorate. Politicians tend to balance their actions based on how they think it will play to the people who might vote for them. "You can try to glaze over that 1,400 dead number" I don't know why you are even suggesting I'm doing that. I haven't discussed the number of anyone's dead except to say the idea that 500 died in the hospital that wasn't blown up was vastly over inflated. I think you might be hallucinating again. "your entire country would be screaming for war and retribution." Yes, they probably would, but I'm not sure what that proves. Leaving asside the fact that I probably wouldn't support the UK committing crimes against humanity in the name of retribution, let's make it personal. If you killed my child in a car accident, I'd would probably want very much to abduct you, and then take you to pieces, painfully, over a very long time until I was sure you knew utter despair. If I was free and able to act on that impulse, I'm not sure my better nature would restrain myself from acting on it either. However, in the position of being distanced from that I don't think that would be the right thing to do, and I don't think it's the kind of thing for society to tolerate to indulge in either. For a state, there are various ways to go about responding to such an attack. I'd want a govt that goes about that response in a way that secures the long term interests and security of the UK, not indulges the appetite of a baying mob in the heat of the moment. Particularly remembering the utter failure of the US in Afghanistan and the sheer cost of further lives and cost; I would for example be less likely to support starting an open ended war that wasn't linked to a long term strategy. Further effective governments shouldn't make decisions like an emotional individual. And I mean effective, setting ethics to one side: even if you think Israel is right to pursue a large scale war that recklessly and needlessly kills a lot of Palestinians, Netenyahu is making it harder for himself to do tha "for being angry enough to want a pound of flesh" Yeah, kinda like how I don't have sympathy for Palestinians that may be rightfully angry about how their lives are fucked up permanent occupation who think they are entitled to a pound of flesh from Israeli babies. It's almost like I might have a set of principles here.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 10:16:27 Nim: "Acting in self-defense is like committing the crime of robbing a bank" Announcing you are going to commit a bunch of warcrimes is obviously much worse than merely robbing a bank.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Oct 20 10:20:16 "I don't know why you are even suggesting I'm doing that." Because you are doing that, my dear idiot. It is the implication of the garbage you are writing. Are you seriously confused about the PR issues Jews have in Europe and among leftists? You think speaking softly is going to change it? The amount of vacuous virtue signaling you have done over who said what about the holocaust, Jesus Christ man, have you no shame?
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 10:22:21 Nim: "Civilized people are not offended by the very understandable Israeli reaction and support them in their goal of destroying Hamas" You say that, but actually what all the very civilised people did was force Israel to do exactly what I suggested: Turn the water back on, let humanitarian supplies back in, allow longer periods for evacuation, arrange a cease fire period to facilitate evacuation etc. These were all things that Israel initially refused to do, but which by publicly announcing literally forced Western leaders to publicly call for and likely insist on behind the scenes (you'll note f.ex that the US only released stocks of 155mm shells earmarked for Ukraine held in US warehouses in Israel to Israel *after* Israel announced it was letting humanitarian aid in and restored water). So you can pretend those actions are opposing the destruction of Hamas, something I've called for by the way, but you are only lying to yourself. Like I said, if you think that there are six year old terrorists that need to be die of thirst, there's something wrong with you Nim. But we knew that already.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 10:25:21 Nim: "Because you are doing that, my dear idiot. It is the implication of the garbage you are writing." Nonsense. If you think the only way you can reasonably respond to 1400 dead civilians is to cause millions of children to die of thirst, there's something wrong with you. We both know that's not what you think, so why pretend that suggesting Israel allow humanitarian relief in, restore water supplies etc. is somehow to gloss over Israel's dead. Especially when every Western leader has called for that and Israel has now conceded? It just makes you look crackers and genocidal.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Oct 20 10:30:03 "children to die of thirst, there's something wrong with you." Apart from that the fact that I, many threads ago, said this was a mistake. You are too late and too stupid as always.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 10:31:07 The boring reality is that you, Rugian and Obaminated are narcissists. You want to feel good about yourself by virtue signalling. So you are creating straw men to argue against. Which is really unnecessary: paramount is right there for you.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 10:31:59 Nim: "Apart from that the fact that I, many threads ago, said this was a mistake" Then why the fuck are you saying that me saying the same fucking thing is downplaying 1400 Israeli dead you utter moron?
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 10:32:50 (I already answered that one for you by the way: it's because you are a narcissist who is seeking opportunities to virtue signal).
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Oct 20 10:36:54 The boring reality is that I have principles, same principles I used when Russia invaded Ukraine, funny how lopsided the reporting on that conflict is, but how "nuanced" western media is as soon as it involved Je.. I mean Israel. How half a dozen far worse conflicts are raging (for control group see West-sahara) that no one cares about, but as soon as it involves those filthy Je.. I mean Israel we have "PR issues". You're a joke.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Oct 20 10:38:13 It's sad that you can't put 2 and 2 together on this one.
obaminated Member	Fri Oct 20 11:19:01 So seb is a useful idiot, speaking like an academic, offering solutions that have already been tried and failed. It's good I suppose. The time for listening to them ended on the 7th. All peaceful solutions were tried and hamas never moved an inch on their interest in killing all the jews. And yes. Seb does not have the stomach for what is necessary. That's fine. He isn't listened to by anyone anymore.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 11:49:26 Nim: Yes, I remember how Western media reported Russia attacking Ukrainian infrastructure like power and water was a war crime. And Russia bombing civilians or hospitals as a war-crime. Western media is actually much more circumspect about accusing Israelis of war crimes. Obaminated: ", offering solutions that have already been tried and failed" Nope. Other way around. Israel walked out of the Oslo process when Sharon's govt decided Olmert's had been too generous on proposed land swaps for Israeli settlements on the West Bank. Attempts to remove the threat of Palestinian terrorist groups by "destroying" the terrorist group through purely military means have been tried and failed multiple times over the course of the Arab Israeli conflict. They have failed every time. A military solution without a political strategy will fail again. Hamas, as I've said but which you evidently have trouble understanding, cannot be part of any political solution. But that is not the same thing as saying there's no political solution. I don't really understand why you think it makes you look good to pretend to be stupid obaminated - especially in a place like this where there's no real audience - so one can only assume you are in fact stupid or just really really care what Sam and Rugian think of you, which is just sad in what it says about your own self respect.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 11:57:24 The issue isn't about "having stomach" for needlessly killing a bunch of children, the issue is that you sound like you have a taste for it. We know it's needless too because hey, Israel has already backed down on many of the points under Western pressure.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 12:02:16 Nim: "Israel we have "PR issues"." Israel depends on access to Western markets, integration with the EU economy, and direct and indirect military and intelligence support. So yes, PR matters for it far far more than the participants of Western Sahara.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 20 12:06:48 Seb Member Thu Oct 19 15:42:12 And like I said, you need to be living on another planet if you think Israel gives the slightest fuck about whatever any other country complains about. Seb Member Fri Oct 20 11:57:24 Israel has already backed down on many of the points under Western pressure. Rofl. Amazing cognition failure.
LazyCommunist Member	Fri Oct 20 12:10:37 Nobody cares, nobody! Tiny country, shithole country, nobody!!! http://www...ou-will-pay-for-backing-hamas/ A senior member of Israel’s ruling Likud Party appeared on the Russian government’s English-language mouthpiece RT (formerly Russia Today) and threatened Moscow over its support for Hamas and the enemies of the Jewish state. Amir Weitmann is the head of the Likud’s libertarian caucus and reportedly a close confidante of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. In his interview on RT, Weitmann did not mince words. “I understand you are on the Russian payroll and that this is Russian propaganda, but you have to be very careful,” Weitmann began. “Because let me tell you, we are going to finish this war. We are going to win because we are strong. And after this, Russia will pay the price. Believe me, Russia will pay.” The incredulous anchor shot back: “Russia will pay?!” Weitmann went on to explain why and how: “Russia is supporting the enemies of Israel. Russia is supporting Nazi people who want to commit genocide on us and Russia will pay the price. We’re gonna win this war. Afterwards, we’re not forgetting what you’re doing, we’re not forgetting, we will come, we will make sure Ukraine wins. We will make sure that you pay the price for what you have done, you as Russia.” The full video can only be viewed on YouTube since it contains sensitive images. Click here to watch.
obaminated Member	Fri Oct 20 12:38:58 "Israel walked out of the Oslo process" This is factually incorrect. But is also irrelevant because it was signed between the Israeli government and the PLO. The PLO clearly has no control over gaza, nor does the PA. So what is your point? Israel followed along with the oslo accords and then stopped, never walked away, because Israel realized the people they signed the accords with no longer had any power in Palestine.
Paramount Member	Fri Oct 20 12:47:47 World’s third oldest church bombed. http://x.com/omarsuleiman504/status/1715136197566025841 Lol
Paramount Member	Fri Oct 20 12:49:44 ” Israel followed along with the oslo accords” No they didn’t. Israel kept on building settlements on land that is Palestinian.
Paramount Member	Fri Oct 20 13:03:03 Maybe Israel will release another audio recording where Hamas will say ’we did it”.
obaminated Member	Fri Oct 20 13:09:59 I will regret engaging with the faggot but... parafag, what has the PLO done to adhere to israel beyond write down they agree with the accords? What actions have they done beyond lose control of gaza entirely?
Paramount Member	Fri Oct 20 13:34:24 It’s a genocide on Christians and Muslims alike in Gaza. Everyone and everything that isn’t a Jew is being targeted. http://x.com/ytirawi/status/1715095308521152619
murder Member	Fri Oct 20 14:33:21 "It’s a genocide on Christians and Muslims alike in Gaza. Everyone and everything that isn’t a Jew is being targeted." They killed Jesus, and he was a Jew so ...
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 20 16:05:05 Rumor has it that biden is fucking this up... telling israel to stop attacking so he can negotiate with the terrorists for the hostages.
obaminated Member	Fri Oct 20 16:10:25 Hamas just released two Americans. Still hold 10 more. 100% they are buying for time and hoping Biden will take the bait.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Oct 20 16:19:41 "Seb Member Fri Oct 20 11:57:24 The issue isn't about "having stomach" for needlessly killing a bunch of children, the issue is that you sound like you have a taste for it." It's only sounds like it, because you are morally confused, confused about the physical world and as evident by your contradicting posts, confused about what the fuck you are even saying. You are an ethical husk, just a suit that looks proper from a distance.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Oct 20 16:23:29 So, to anyone saying "it isn't going to work" *cough* Jergul. Hamas has gone from: 1. We will execute a hostage for every one of us you kill. 2. We will return the hostage for all our prisoners. 3 We will return the hostage if you stop bombing. 4. We will release 2 hostages as a show of good faith. You must speak the language these people understand, they only understand violence.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 20 17:19:50 The UK also seems to be demanding that negotiations with terrorists occur.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 20 17:20:07 Which makes sense, they are sebs
obaminated Member	Fri Oct 20 17:23:39 Yeah. This is how hamas regains control.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 17:30:47 Sam: Complaints aren't pressure. Israel is a demandeure for support right now. Not necessarily visible support but: 1. Intelligence 2. Diplomatic (dire threats to Iran etc not to exploit the situation to attack further) 3. Munitions That support right now comes with strings. But when they don't immediately need support, then they blow Western concerns off. Obaminated: Nah, it's on record. Sharon's aide's publicly admitted to it. "signed the accords with no longer had any power in Palestine." Fatah still runs the west bank. They ran Gaza until Israel cut it off from the west bank and let Hezbollah funnel guns to Hamas while preventing Fatah from arming it's folks there. Nim: You are a card. First you complain that opposing starving and dehydrating six year olds is supporting terror. Then you claim you yourself opposed it before. Now you say "lacking the stomach" to starve and dehydrate six year olds is "moral confusion". Which is it? Or do you actually have principles? I think not. Just virtue signalling to be one of an in crowd that are on record as thinking people with your history should be deported back to Iran. And you say I'm a moral husk.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 17:32:12 The UK's objectives are to secure the safe release of UK citizens first and foremost. It make shock you to learn this, but the govt is elected to serve the interests of British citizens, not Israelis.
obaminated Member	Fri Oct 20 17:35:58 And in the interest of the British government you believe negotiating with terrorists who have already murdered their citizens is in the UKs best interest. Again. You do not have the stomach or moral fortitude to say no, we are not giving ground to terrorists.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 20 19:24:06 "Complaints aren't pressure." Lol retarded.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 19:48:21 Sam: I complain about you all the time. Have you felt any pressure? Obaminated: It rather sounds like you don't have the stomach to do what needs to be done. The UK govts objective is the safe return of its citizens. Once they are returned, then I think we will be fine with Israel invading. That seems to be the deal that has been struck. Israel allows humanitarian aid and turns back the water, delays that invasion and gives the US and UK a crack at negotiating the release of their citizens. Then Israel gets to invade Gaza, with British and American support.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 19:50:32 Oh noes we spoke to some bad people and released some mooks to get back our people our honor is forever stained forsooth I clutcheth my pearls. And then we give the Israelis radio intercepts of their location and they get bombed. I'm fine with that. Don't know why you aren't. Probably because you are a fool that thinks this is Hollywood.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 20 20:03:21 And just to remind you, the UK and the US probably wouldn't have with held support and delayed that invasion pending Israeli commitments to meet conditions if they didn't have to respond to us and uk domestic demands that arose directly from Netenyahu's stupid declarations. The US and UK are going to help Israel, but Israel needs to help the US and UK govts to help Israel. This is the way the world works. It's called realpolitik.
murder Member	Fri Oct 20 20:39:55 "It make shock you to learn this, but the govt is elected to serve the interests of British citizens, not Israelis." What??? That's not how OUR government works. :o\
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 20 21:51:30 "I complain about you all the time. Have you felt any pressure? " You have 0 power, so obviously not. If my big brother who also happens to give me 3 billion dollars a year complained about me, then i would feel pressure.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 20 21:55:56 "but the govt is elected to serve the interests of British citizens" Teaching terrorists hostage taking is profitable does not serve your citizens. Then again i wouldnt necessarily expect the nation that elected neville chamberlain to know that, and you are about 8000 more cucked now than then.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 20 21:56:53 Then again NYC clearly isnt any wiser. http://x.com/AOC/status/1715462413544251641?s=20 Who elects such a retard?
jergul large member	Sat Oct 21 01:20:12 Nimi I never thought Hamas was going to execute hostages and POWs, though I was pretty sure Israel would be killing some. That is the problem. Israel cannot erradicate Hamas without erradicating the hostages. They are in the same bunker systems. Yes, Hamas has released two hostages. It will take a while before we know what they got in return for that. But we can be sure they got something. Seb Nimi is dogwhistling genocide. He has his "principles" all right. He just lacks the courage of his convictions. Fair enough I suppose, he is pretty close to being under Sapo surveillance if not there already (that hunting class may in retrospect not have been too smart of him to take).
jergul large member	Sat Oct 21 01:36:28 I should hasten to say. Nimi is certainly not a threat from what I know of his internet personality. But I also know that his internet personality ticks a lot of boxes security forces use in screening.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Oct 21 10:45:25 Hamas-backed preachers screaming for jihad from the streets of the islamic caliphate of london. http://x.com/hurryupharry/status/1715732342604505530?s=20
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 21 11:54:52 Jergul has to push so hard, his sphincter is going to blow out.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 21 12:06:28 These people were offered a land and they chose the sword, and they failed over and over and they still choose the sword. I am not going to value your children, higher than you value them. If you send them towards Israeli soldiers, shouting: “keep going, let them shoot you”. You have made your choice.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 21 12:48:06 Crazy how there are millions of gypsies in Europe, who have been treated like dogshit for over a hundred years, not a single romani equivalent to a Jihadi organization. Not a single terrorist attack.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 21 13:18:09 lol the sebs at the Metropolitan PD have decided that Hizb ut tahrir, an islamist organization, chanting Jihad in the name of god and talking about “the armies of Islam liberating Palestine”, is totally fine. http://x.c...?s=46&t=CYhWz3k7xEhK_08avnT4-w
Sam Adams Member	Sat Oct 21 15:32:22 But but but Seb said infinite migrants would become british.
obaminated Member	Sat Oct 21 15:47:01 Seb is a pretty rational person. 100% brainwashed but rational. Even he must begin to realize how wrong he has been over and over again. I give him a break. Parafag is just a dick. And jergul has sold his soul. Seb is the one to be saved if he can just find his moral certain and understand that passive behavior =/= stoicism and giving ground =/= good diplomacy. The men of the west will end this curse of Islam.
obaminated Member	Sat Oct 21 15:48:50 Btw. If Israel nukes Baghdad (Babylon) you really need to make right with God. Because we are nearing that and it isn't that hard to take a good hard look at yourself and your mistakes and ask for God's giveness. Just saying.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 21 16:53:48 "However, recognising the way language like this will be interpreted by the public and the divisive impact it will have, officers have identified the man involved and will be speaking to him shorty to discourage any repeat of similar chanting." The problem is that people can "interpret" calling for Jihad and the armies of Muslims marching on Israel, the wrong way.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 21 17:15:00 The punchline is that this the same police force that investigates people for "misgendering". Because that is a crime in this country. This is put in practice the moral confusion that sebs suffer from. So, if our seb is going to wake up, now would be the time. Any day seb, I am willing to take you back with open arms, no questions asked, no fuss, nothing.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Oct 21 23:58:26 One of the carriers will move from the med to offshore iran.
Allahuakbar Member	Sun Oct 22 03:54:12 London is ours! http://www...london-for-pro-palestine-rally About 100,000 demonstrators turned out in central London to show their support for Palestine and demand an end to Israel’s bombardment of Gaza. In London, some of the protesters chanted, “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”, despite a controversy around the slogan’s meaning. The home secretary, Suella Braverman, has previously labelled the slogan antisemitic and claimed that it is “widely understood” to call for the destruction of Israel. Jewish groups have asked prosecutors to clarify whether chanting the slogan is a criminal offence. However, the slogan’s defenders describe it as a “longstanding protest chant” that calls for a homeland for the Palestinian people. The Met has said that although the chant could be unlawful outside a synagogue or Jewish school, or addressed directly to a Jewish person, “its use in a wider protest setting, such as we anticipate this weekend, would not be an offence and would not result in arrests”. A small group of protesters held a separate demonstration in central London on Saturday in which a large banner read: “Muslim armies, rescue the people of Palestine.”
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Oct 22 05:43:44 Emirati minister of foreign affairs, saying what I have been saying to the sebs and jergul for over 10 years: http://x.c...?s=46&t=CYhWz3k7xEhK_08avnT4-w “There will come a day when we will see far more radical extremism and terrorism out of Europe, because of a lack of decision making, trying to be politically correct or *assuming they understand the middle east or Islam or the other, far better than we do*. And I’m sorry but that’s pure ignorance”. Those rightwing talking points are really widespread.
Seb Member	Sun Oct 22 05:48:23 Sam: "You have 0 power" As do most govts over Israel except when violence flares, and when violence flares politically the west is constrained as it is almost impossible not to give Israel is backing. Your claim that somehow Israel's security policy over the last 20 years has been driven by Western peaceniks is an absolute fantasy and trying to prove that by sophistry is ridiculous. The extent of Western influence on Israel is simply to ask them to delay their action (which we will support and fund, to the detriment of the Ukraine conflict - which is actually key to Western strategic interests in a way Israel, bluntly, isn't) to let us get our citizens out of Gaza to avoid the internal political problems of having one half the end electorate demanding we support Israel and another demanding we cut it off after we inevitably find a bunch of children who are our citizens have been killed with our own munitions that we have to Israel. "Teaching terrorists hostage taking is profitable does not serve your citizens." It isn't profiting though. Prisoner swaps aren't fungible ans transferable like cash is so have always been engaged with. They get some prisoners back, released in to Gaza, where Israel has just promised to kill every member of Hamas. Objectively that's a good deal for us. We get some citizens back and remove things that will make it politically difficult to support Israel killing Hamas. They get some people in jail released to their deaths. You approach these things too simplistically. If the situation were different, then we probably wouldn't negotiate. But in this context it works well for us.
Seb Member	Sun Oct 22 05:50:13 Sam: "Sat Oct 21 10:45:25 Hamas-backed preachers screaming for jihad from the streets of the islamic caliphate of london." Police are going after a bunch of them for hate crime laws. You know the same laws you regularly deride as "being arrested for saying mean things".
Paramount Member	Sun Oct 22 11:13:40 Lol @ UK Its turning into a fascist police state. http://x.com/lowkey0nline/status/1715699831308497273
Sam Adams Member	Sun Oct 22 11:15:41 "As do most govts over Israel" Ya, and we obviously arent talking about what luxumbourg says. You dunce. Anyway it looks like the biden admin is fucking this up... demanding israel not invade so that negotiations can occur. He started well but is going downhill fast. "Police are going after a bunch of them for hate crime laws." Lol no they arent.
Paramount Member	Sun Oct 22 11:16:33 Jewish pedos are trying to kidnapp a 3 y.o boy. http://x.com/partisangirl/status/1715660289927201148
Allahuakbar Member	Sun Oct 22 11:38:46 Even though the video from paramount is 5 years old http://ime...child-3-attempt-to-abduct-him/ it's still great propaganda material and should be posted every 3 month in this forum.
jergul large member	Sun Oct 22 15:47:50 I wonder how off the charts fringe lunatic your perspectives have to be to think it appeasement to advocate the full occupation of Gaza to remove Hamas and ensure similar organizations never rise again
Seb Member	Sun Oct 22 15:57:52 Sam: There were ten hate crime arrests today alone related to protests. Not surprising you'd deny this. You've never been much in touch with reality.
Seb Member	Sun Oct 22 15:59:49 Jergul: I mean, they can't just say "how dare you suggest we shouldn't genocide Gaza".
Sam Adams Member	Sun Oct 22 18:50:14 Your own police department tweeted out that they were trying to avoid arresting any muslims. Sounded like bureaucratic hogwash... a lot like you in fact.
Sam Adams Member	Sun Oct 22 18:57:01 "Counterattacking after a horrific terror attack is genocide" -retards
Sam Adams Member	Sun Oct 22 18:58:20 Anyway after being very nice and warning civilians to evacuate for 2 straight weeks, israel is lighting up northern gaza tonight. Sounds like some arty and tanks may be joining in the fun.
murder Member	Sun Oct 22 22:57:34 "I wonder how off the charts fringe lunatic your perspectives have to be to think it appeasement to advocate the full occupation of Gaza to remove Hamas and ensure similar organizations never rise again" About as fringe as you'd have to be to recognize that European countries demanding that the US occupy Iraq and restore order was nothing more than a cynical move to guarantee a cluster fuck for the US. You kill and you break shit, and then you move on. Occupations do nothing but bog you down and create a target rich environment for the enemy.
Sam Adams Member	Sun Oct 22 23:07:22 http://x.com/darrengrimes_/status/1715769870925607089?s=20 Sebland is fallen in shame. "You kill and you break shit, and then you move on. Occupations do nothing but bog you down and create a target rich environment for the enemy." Generally agree. Occupations can work but they have to be total, and it helps to have an intelligent conquered population that can be rebuilt. You can never build a civilization with a 80iq electorate for example.
Rugian Member	Mon Oct 23 01:27:14 57% of US Muslims think that Hamas was justified in butchering over a thousand Israelis. http://www...ygnal-National-Israel-Deck.pdf These savages don't belong in Western countries.
Rugian Member	Mon Oct 23 01:37:53 "Occupations can work but they have to be total," Indeed. Say what you will about the Soviets, but they understood that the territories they occupied during WWII would never be secure so long as Germans remained in them. You assimilate the people you can assimilate and get rid of the rest. That's how occupation should work.
Rugian Member	Mon Oct 23 01:40:07 "which is actually key to Western strategic interests in a way Israel, bluntly, isn't" Nice to see that you still don't give a single shit about the 1,400 dead Jews. Sapping Russian power in a Ukraine forever proxy war is all you care about.
	show deleted posts