Utopia Talk / Politics / What's your take on Vivek?

Kilo Member	Fri Aug 18 22:34:20 Long time no talk. Hope all you fuckers have been well. So I've been listening to Vivek on YouTube mostly through the year and I'm interested in in his views and thinking about voting for him if he's the republican nominee. What's your view on him?
obaminated Member	Fri Aug 18 23:54:25 I think he has a promising rapper career ahead of him.
Rugian Member	Sat Aug 19 07:24:46 Hope you've been doing good as well kilo. Not a huge fan of him for a couple of reasons: He's a blank slate due to lack of prior experience, so its hard to tell whether he genuinely believes in what he's saying. A lot of his platform is more messaging than actual achievable policy. For example, he wants to cut personnel in the administrative state by a full 75%, but he offers no insight into how he would get Congress, the bureaucracy, and the courts to support that effort. He's had a couple of wonky/bad takes so far, like calling for raising the voting age (this is an automatic vote loser, no matter what you believe on the subject) or claiming that he'll plunder Taiwan of its semiconductor industry and then let the CCP do what it wants with the island. Above all, he's repeatedly attacked DeSantis but has kept conspicuously quiet with any criticism of (the far and away frontrunner) Trump. This suggests that he's not a serious candidate; either he's running to elevate his position and maybe get a position in a Trump administration, or he's an outright spoiler candidate employed by Trump to bleed DeSantis of support. Maybe as time goes on I'll find reason to like him more, but right now I don't trust him all that much.
murder Member	Sat Aug 19 10:16:23 He's a horrible person so he fits right in with the GOP.
murder Member	Sat Aug 19 10:24:12 GOP: Lets loosen the child labor laws so we can put these lazy 13 year olds to work. Also GOP: Lets raise the voting age to 25! Anyone old enough to work and pay taxes is old enough to vote.
Rugian Member	Sat Aug 19 10:30:42 Anyone old enough to vote is old enough to own a firearm.
murder Member	Sat Aug 19 10:50:34 You don't need to be old enough to vote to own a firearm. But sure, kids already have guns anyway. Their idiot parents perform the straw purchases for them.
obaminated Member	Sat Aug 19 11:17:30 Yeah, we should put a stop to that. We should also put a stop to idiot parents performing straw purchases of cars for their 16 year olds.
Kilo Member	Mon Aug 21 21:29:45 I agree with the voting age. You pay taxes, but aren't able to vote unless you pass a civics test or work on the service due 6 months. That's odd to me.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Aug 21 21:36:56 Why does paying taxes qualify you for deciding things? That's the odd thing. The resistance towards this idea is because of "tradition", universal voting has become this holy cow, few people are questioning. But it is obvious that it is a massive part of the problem. Just speak with the average clueless voter (more clueless than the average UP poster) and it becomes crystal clear.
kargen Member	Mon Aug 21 21:46:21 Juries still out. Went down a notch with his look at me play tennis vid though.
Y2A Member	Mon Aug 21 21:59:06 Modi has a decent shot if the clown goes down. With that said, as Rug said his voting age position might hurt him NOT because repubs will actually care (they would love to strip Gen Z's of their voting rights) but because it could be used by sanctimonious to attack him as a wild card who will say unelectable things.
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Aug 22 00:46:01 I mostly agree with Ramaswamy on a policy level. He is probably the only candidate who knows very clearly that the central issue at work right now is ESG infiltration of Western governance. He's incredibly high-information, has read Francis' Leviathan, correctly defines "woke", has published works critical of the managerial state, has specific plans to purge the Bolsheviks, and isn't afraid even to address the racialist strategy that the Regime is using for power. On the con side, I mentioned this under his Clint Russell live interview on July 17th: • "My only concern with Ramaswamy is that ESG is not just a Chinese economic warfare engine; it favors BRICS+ more broadly, and that includes India. BRICS+ already has a lot of notable bureaucrats in positions of power in U.S. 3-letter agencies, and we see how often this Venn Diagram (BRICS+ personnel and a retention of global allegiance within their host nations) comes with intentionally undermining U.S. sovereignty. This makes it difficult to simply be blind to national origins. • "To his credit, Ramaswamy has a chapter in "Capitalist Punishment" called "No Manager Can Serve Two Masters", which signals the importance of dissolving dual loyalties. Also, a lot of these BRICS+ infiltrators have very transparent resentment of U.S. institutions (e.g., Lina Khan), whereas Ramaswamy seems to genuinely support the U.S. free market's meritocracy without any resentment. It's something to think about, though." He's aware of the Dysgenics War against white people, but his hope seems to be a return to StarTrek:TNG race-blind meritocracy, which does not address losses already suffered. Spelled out: • BRICS+ is intentionally undermining Western governance with ESG, • ESG infiltration places BRICS+ nationals into positions of power within Western governments, • Ramaswamy is a second-generation Indian, raised Hindu. So a potential worry here is that he'll use "meritocracy" specifically as a way to expand Indian infiltration of U.S. governance, since Indian nationals in tech infamously use meritocracy as a foot-in-door for nepotism as a means to take over high-paying professions and information systems. Keep in mind issues such as how useful it is to India that the U.S. government largely uses Microsoft Windows and that Windows tech support back-doors are managed by India. Placing nationals on both ends of this gateway is incredibly useful. Purging the bureaucracies leaves a vacuum, and his policies could fill these vacuums along lines useful to BRICS+ (i.e., tailoring hiring practices for Indian nepotism). This means that it comes down to trust, like Rugian said. How much can you trust that he's sincere in the application of his policies? The simple conclusion for me is to applaud him for his correct policies so that other candidates can see the value of his positions but to not take Ramaswamy himself as someone who should hold power in U.S. governance.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Aug 22 02:39:43 CC "He's aware of the Dysgenics War against white people, but his hope seems to be a return to StarTrek:TNG race-blind meritocracy, which does not address losses already suffered." What are you suggesting?
murder Member	Tue Aug 22 05:34:29 That white people are the real victims.
murder Member	Tue Aug 22 05:36:20 And therefore need to be compensated for the marginal losses they've suffered.
TheChildren Member	Tue Aug 22 09:47:55 just another warmonger
murder Member	Wed Aug 23 05:33:37 Ramaswamy insinuating that US agents were behind the 9/11 attacks. Trump was right about other countries not sending us their best and brightest. I support deporting Vivek and his entire family.
murder Member	Wed Aug 23 05:35:54 I personally don't trust people who change colors like a mood ring.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Aug 23 07:31:58 [Nim]: "What are you suggesting?" Nothing that I haven't suggested already. In the case of Ramaswamy, his immigration positions are already pretty strong, so additional effort would mean openly stating that white people have become a target for foreign interests, propaganda, and Bolshevik infiltrators because they are the most likely to fight for the sovereignty of Western nations, thus, dispossessing them with rhetoric like murder's (e.g., sociopathic-abuser comments which mock the very possibility of putting up a fight, such as the sarcasm in "white people are the real victims") is part of a strategy of toppling Western sovereignty (i.e., target, demoralize, and degrade those most likely to fight for national sovereignty so that globalist agendas can infiltrate). Asians, meanwhile, are the most averse to military service in the U.S.: [Council on Foreign Relations; 2020 survey] http://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/demographics-us-military Asians represent the smallest portion of U.S. service *and* do not serve at the level of their census percentage, and this is before sub-dividing into categories such as Japanese, Korean, or Indian. This again cuts to the issue of Ramaswamy's use of meritocracy as a managerial fast-track rather than as a sovereignty-protecting imperative. That is, abusing "meritocracy" benefits Asians in Western nations because they can infiltrate managerial roles without carrying the nation's burdens of ultraviolence. So, if Ramaswamy merely re-iterates the TNG society vision, then the issue of Hegelian "Masters" entering society to infiltrate management positions to control "slaves" remains unaddressed. And this would be the plain result of that in the system's ratcheting trick: • Cycle One 1) Boost propaganda and policies which reduce the percentage of white people in Western nations. 2) When people tire of the propaganda and the survival instinct of the West re-asserts itself, offer the West its race-blind principles back to it. • Cycle Two and Beyond [Repeat Cycle One] After enough cycles, the sovereign citizens are depleted and step "2)" can no longer occur — no more survival instinct remains. So, he would have to say more than the middle-ground declaration that the West and U.S. identity in particular is just disembodied principles. He cannot just dip his toes into Heinlein: he would need to say that the franchise demands hard labor, not "meritocracy" as pure intellect (a folly that Heinlein spoke about: the folly of simply letting intelligent people be society's leaders). Ramaswamy would need to say that those most willing to do ultra-violence on behalf of a society's principles are those deserving of the franchise. And there are indirect ways to do this that wouldn't torch his campaign. He's talked about purging the bureaucracies. He could follow-up by saying that essential bureaucracies would be run on skeleton crews of non-officer combat veterans who have no commie sympathies. :D
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Aug 23 07:32:34 [murder]: "Ramaswamy insinuating that US agents were behind the 9/11 attacks." Well, U.S.–Israeli agents, anyways.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Aug 23 09:38:35 CC Sorry I didn't word it properly. I should have said, what do you suggest be done, about the losses already suffered? "Asians, meanwhile, are the most averse to military service in the U.S" Thing is, where they come from the military is the an oppressive arm of the authoritarian state they fled from or something that peasants and people with no other options do. Same goes for the police to some extent. So when the 1st gen get to the USA or EU with that baggage, they feel like their kids have all the options in the world, to go be a doctor, engineer or a lawyer. But also, to fill in your point. A lot of the first gen are coming with degrees or are straight up academics. Academics are not the bravest group of people, not even in their own domain do they have the balls to stand up for principles. These are the people with the best chance of migrating legally.
TheChildren Member	Wed Aug 23 11:58:32 why da hell asians gotta join ur warmongerin military, lmao. didnt u catch da memo, even if they joined up, they will be harassed becoz "they must be spies". never seen such a comment b4, lmao. why u aint in military, kid? i dont know, same reason u arent maybe? like, is it not a choice. da fuck u even talkin about hahaha.
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Aug 25 05:16:47 [TheChildren]: "why da hell asians gotta join ur warmongerin military, lmao." They don't. It's optional. It's voluntary. But if people are averse to difficult service on behalf of their own nations, then they should be denied the franchise. I.e., if they want to play it safe and have a free ride in the U.S., then they should not be allowed to vote or hold office. Your example of the recent show of Chinese spies in the U.S. military only further illustrates this point; they could not be trusted to serve, and therefore should not be trusted with the vote. [Nim]: "I should have said, what do you suggest be done, about the losses already suffered?" Oh, I see. Short version is counter-narratives. Slightly longer is that purging the bureaucracies already does most of the work, since anti-life Marxist messaging requires infiltration of government. With ESG dismantled, the Marxist propaganda also decreases, since news media, television, and movie producers would no longer have their anti-life propaganda subsidized by the same people they are trying to destroy. Getting counter-narratives into the mainstream after this would be much easier, since studios would have to make movies that make money. Movies that make money in the West would be those that promote Western heroes, strong relationships, love stories, and liberty. These ideas themselves carry through society and show strong people that it is fruitful for them to create strong families of their own. The much longer answer, though, gets closer to designing the ideal society, which would include policies against online pornography and the closing of LGBTQ2S+NAMBLA spaces. I've been meaning to consolidate a list of these items, so I'll start working on that.
TheChildren Member	Fri Aug 25 05:47:10 there aint no china spies recently other than made up coldwar rabies warmongering yellow periol accusations
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Aug 25 05:54:17 lulz. Even when TC lies he has to qualify with "recently" XD
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Aug 25 06:47:07 CC Fair enough. Will read it :-) I am pro service for voting, across the board. I very much like the suggestion of raising the age for porn and prostitution. That would dissuade many young people from doing stupid thing just by letting the idea age poorly, while allowing actual adults autonomy. 18 isn’t adult enough.
TheChildren Member	Fri Aug 25 08:14:58 yea yea yea sure we r supposed 2 believe thzt they waz spies and received 15k for it. very blievable story 2...lmao 15k. were they sleepin under a bridge? u that naieve? or maybe it just coz u wanna believe it 2 be true.
Rugian Member	Fri Aug 25 08:34:57 Yeah after last night's debate, I smell complete con man from Vivek. Calling Trump "the greatest president if the 21st century"...as if that's a super-long list that has more than four people. I dunno, *maybe* his strategy is to knock out the other candidates first by sucking up to Trump, then pivot to attacking Trump when he's managed to turn the race into a head-to-head mstch. I think he's just angling for fame and maybe a Cabinet position though.
Average Ameriacn Member	Fri Aug 25 08:40:52 Could he convince India to go to war against China?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Aug 25 09:14:10 I don't think, he is not trying to become Trump's VP. The obvious answer is that, Trump has a grip on a large part of the Republican party and everyone who is fucking with him, loses those votes. There is no gain to be had messing with Trump as long as he can run in the primaries and burning his voters. Which, judging by what some people are saying, even when he is positive towards Trump, seems to have merit. It's the same thing RFK is doing, the few times he has been pressed (Jordan Peterson) to say when the left goes to far, he has refused. RFK already has so many fringe ideas for the Democrats, that to antagonize the D voters on such generic grounds, like why go there?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Aug 25 09:14:29 I don't think, he is trying...*
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Aug 27 01:05:57 [TheChildren]: "lmao 15k. were they sleepin under a bridge?" Chinese spies typically do it because they're so low-IQ that they simply default to their programming. That is, they probably didn't even need to be paid; they just report everything to the hivemind like good little ants. That said, they were probably paid anyways just because the U.S. government sometimes offers more than 15k just for enlisting. And they were in the military, which means that they already had free housing; any payments would be a bonus. [Average]: "Could he convince India to go to war against China?" Don't tempt voters with a good time! .. Ramaswamy just tanked on a big issue: "By the end of my first term, the US-Israel relationship will be deeper and stronger than ever because it won’t be a client relationship, it will be a true friendship. The centerpiece of my Middle East policy in Year 1 will be to lead “Abraham Accords 2.0” which will fully integrate Israel into the Middle East economy. A brighter future of Israel and good for the US." [August 26th, 2023] http://twi...amy/status/1695603136654696562 First of all, a hyphen instead of an en dash? From a Harvard grad? smh ;) Secondly, he's just giving Israel more power to destroy the Middle East, which means Europe gets to look forward to more mass immigration. I mean, Sebs can only name their children "Muhammad" so many times. The only positive angles here: he could be playing the strategy game by lying to Israel before nuking it, but that's likely pure fantasy. Another would be that he thinks he could water them down by outperforming their policy directives. None of the GOP candidates would push against Israel, though, which might have something to do with them not wanting Israeli intelligence to 9/11 again.
TheChildren Member	Sun Aug 27 02:18:29 da average asian has 2.5x da iq of da average whitoid...lmao u sound completely in denial and sour about it. just look at any asian kid in da class lmao
murder Member	Sun Aug 27 06:34:14 "The only positive angles here: he could be playing the strategy game by lying to Israel before nuking it, but that's likely pure fantasy." Good luck getting the US military to obey the launch order.
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Aug 27 06:56:14 [murder]: "Good luck getting the US military to obey the launch order." Hence "pure fantasy". Israel strategically infiltrates all levers of power. [TheChildren]: "da average asian has 2.5x da iq of da average whitoid...lmao u sound completely in denial and sour about it." Keep telling yourself that while simultaneously being aware that Chinese students at universities are so aware that their Western professors are too afraid of being called "racist" that they exchange IDs and take each other's exams and openly cheat during tests. And again tell yourself that while avoiding the reality that collectivists are such braindead slaves that the intellectual burden of morality is too great for them to hold simultaneously with a work ethic, hence they will cheat, steal, bribe, and become parasites to any creative enterprise rather than creating anything themselves — or do you forget all of the copy&paste Chinese cities that you've lauded, which should include copy&paste Paris ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianducheng )? Chinese collectivists are like calculators. They can perform a set task very well — perhaps even fooling people with the possibility that this means "IQ" — but if you ask them to put a sentence together, stand in a line, not piss on the sidewalk, and not hunt endangered animals for miracle flaccidity cures, then you'll quickly realize that there are human costs to directing all brain power to one single task. Chinese collectivists are slaves perfected. It is no wonder that the asset managers love them.
TheChildren Member	Sun Aug 27 07:56:58 u shittin me. rofl u sound deluded. chinese r literally 2.5 ur iq lol. where u getting ur info, its hilarious. u got no problems admittin that blacks are better basketballers, and other sports. dont need 2, a simple look round da court will tell u all u need 2 know. 90% are blacks. but ur society so racists they dunt wanna admit asians r smarter. coz that be da end of da world 4 u. but one look round class and colleges alrdy tell u all u need 2 know lol. its dominated by asians. butbutbut they cheatin...keep cryin and copin lol. we all know it is BS lies. "but if you ask them to put a sentence together, stand in a line, not piss on the sidewalk, and not hunt endangered animals for miracle flaccidity cures, then you'll quickly realize that there are human costs to directing all brain power to one single task." >> rofl thats weird, most of da public shittin videos on youtube r all whities shittin on da streets, in someones porch, in someone garden, next 2 someones car, heck i even seen dozen videos of whities openly shittin in a supermarket. they literally just shit and u see da shit drop down da pants on da ground lol whities also biggest polluters on da planet and then they send all them trash 2 3rd world countries and this is how they lied and pretend there countries r clean and shit when in reality it is only clean coz its shipped to 3rd world countries.
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Aug 27 08:08:05 TheChildren after I mention that Chinese people have awful verbal skills: "rofl thats weird, most of da public shittin videos on youtube r all whities shittin on da streets" It's okay that you're retarded, TC. Lots of tards live kickass lives. I knew one tard who was Asian. She works at Foxconn now, probably building the next batch of iPhones as we speak!
TheChildren Member	Sun Aug 27 08:19:08 cool story, and where u workin now? while u was sayin that, meanwhile in foxconn city, some asian: i knew this tard whitie once, she believes in tinfoil hats and fakenews society how they r the supreme chosen race by god. lol pwned
TheChildren Member	Sun Aug 27 08:21:28 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4sm-QnbhCY da greatest economic miracle. EVER, Thats EVAAAAAARRR in world history. lol. thats 5000 years of human history. not 200 years. jesus didnt came 2 touch whities in da 18th century lol. ancient civilizations go back 5000 years.
TheChildren Member	Sun Aug 27 08:23:22 da whole world, stands behind china. as evidenced last few dayz by da brics summit. whats ur take on that. lololol. it ok, u can cry. just let those tears out lol. let it all out. ull feel much better after. a new chapter of ur life can begin after. just let it allll out.
TheChildren Member	Sun Aug 27 08:25:15 ya know brics was 60 heads of states all talkin, da biggest countries in da world all gathered coz they wanted 2 join. lol meanwhile whitie media was about, crimea... and surprise surprise just a few days after, we suddenly hearin about all these trainin exercize "accidents"... mmm 1+1 = 2?
Rugian Member	Sun Aug 27 10:48:59 China is finished. Zeihan was wrong after all, it took even less time than he anticipated for China to collapse lol. http://com...t,_2020.png#mw-jump-to-license Demographics is destiny, and China genocided its own. Gg
Rugian Member	Sun Aug 27 10:58:33 Nimatzo: There was a point in time when DeSantis was running neck and neck with Trump. So it is possible to pitch yourself as a viable alternative to him. It is an incredibly difficult balancing game though. As we saw with DeSantis, the mainstream media went on a giant character assassination game against him in order to crush his popularity (as they desperately want Trump to be the nominee). As you mentioned, you don't want to come out *too* strongly against Trump or else you lose his supporters. But if Trump sets his sights on you and you don't push back forcefully enough, you look like a weakling. So Vivek's strategy might make sense on that front. The problem though is that he's not distinguishing himself from Trump *at all.* if we take his statements at face value and agree that Trump was an amazing president who doesn't warrant any criticism, then why shouldn't we just vote for Trump again? Vivek *himself* is making Trump out to be the best option! So sure, he's managed to not draw any fire from Trump, and Trump's voters like him. They're not going to vote for him though, so long as the big guy himself is still around.
TheChildren Member	Sun Aug 27 13:00:46 da delusions in ur headz, yankoids. buhahaha. u got 300 million peoples but somehow u ok. but when china has lets say 600 mill peoples, they be in big trouble in chinatown is it now, yankoid.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Aug 27 15:48:18 on Vivek topic... he was the only one who escaped answering if Pence did the right thing on J6, so Chuck Todd asked him: https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1695806928880840995 ^Vivek says if he was Pence he would have 'led through' single-day voting, paper ballots, & voter ID and -then on that condition- certified the election results (all on Jan 6) (& he's given a chance to clarify & that's what he clarified...) so a garbage idiot... no, Pence couldn't refuse to do his constitutional duties until magically passing through major election reform (that steps on States' rights)...
Rugian Member	Sun Aug 27 16:02:05 What's wrong with single-day voting, paper ballots, and voter ID?
Rugian Member	Sun Aug 27 16:02:39 And clearly there was at least a theoretical possibility that Pence could refuse...as evidenced by Congress feeling the need to amend the Electoral Count Act afterwards.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Aug 27 16:42:23 "What's wrong with single-day voting, paper ballots, and voter ID? " Pence implementing it nationally on Jan 6 & as requirement to do his constitution duties? it was a pathetic answer to avoid just say "Yes, of course Pence did the right thing" & you're being sucked into Trump's total fucking idiocy by accepting they changed the ECA because it was possible (for the VP... on the ticket... to single-handedly trash the entire electoral (& thus popular) vote... NO, NO, NO) ... every stupid ridiculous bullshit he says doesn't need believed
murder Member	Sun Aug 27 18:34:58 "& you're being sucked into Trump's total fucking idiocy by accepting they changed the ECA because it was possible" I seem to remember someone on this board asserting that's exactly what would happen if they passed that "reform". Oh yeah, that was me. That reform literally does nothing but cover Trump's ass for trying to get Pence to help him overthrow the government.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Aug 27 18:56:14 yeah, apparently so, as people are fucking idiots the plot literally was to pretend fake electors had meaning (when they 250 million percent clearly had exactly zero meaning) & for Pence to just outright reject any votes from those states or to send it back for legislatures to vote who gets the electors (both methods meaning completely trashing the popular vote) that totally fucking absurd bullshit for many is now 'well, maybe he could...' or 'a novel theory' (as Eastman's lawyer puts out) & various candidates afraid to just say NO, that's so obviously wrong as then they are opposing the cult leader Trump makes people stupid... it's proven
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Aug 27 19:24:51 [TheChildren]: "da whole world, stands behind china. as evidenced last few dayz by da brics summit. [/] whats ur take on that." If you were literate, you might know that that's exactly the sort of thing I talk about in the totalitarians thread — and have been talking about for years now. I have been warning about BRICS+ being empowered by traitorous Western oligarchs since before you even knew that BRICS existed. We actually agree on a lot, TC, except that you see only China and not the asset managers moving them. China is indeed poised for global domination in the medium term, but the asset managers intend to destroy them in the long term. [Rugian]: "China is finished. Zeihan was wrong after all, it took even less time than he anticipated for China to collapse lol." Zeihan, China Uncensored, and a few others are missing the mark on what's boiling, I think. I made a simple meme about "Bidenomics" yesterday to summarize: http://twitter.com/CherubCow/status/1695776551948939494 Keep in mind that China's plans are for 2030 and 2050, with the West's collapse designed to empower China on that same timeline (UN/WEF's ESG/"sustainability" 2030/2050 agenda). Once the West has converted its energy sector into a total dependence on Chinese energy, China drives up the prices and owns Western debts through global supply dominance. On that timeline, China's (current) population collapse is easily remedied by its energy plans. It has dozens of nuclear plants breaking ground, it has expanded oil and coal production, and those empty skyscrapers that it has been littering across the country (a meme that has been taken as Chinese wastefulness) are ready for a population boom. The West is intentionally destroying its population prospects to prepare for the energy output that it expects (i.e., it expects fewer people and thus measures energy for a lower population) whereas China is intentionally empowering its population prospects (i.e., it expects more people and increases energy for those people). More energy = more population (China) Less energy = decreased population (the West) TLDR: Zeihan extrapolates the short-term phase of China teetering on debt failure, and he thinks that China's collapse is inevitable. He has a huge blindspot for ESG* and so misses that China is hedging; he misses that China is waiting for Western collapse to empower its energy monopoly, reversing its position. If we *really* want to see China collapse, then the West needs to divest from ESG in order to stop empowering China. Without ESG empowering China, China really does become the paper tiger that Zeihan and China Uncensored want them to be. *(Zeihan does not mention ESG a single time in his "End of the World..." book and only recently (July 2023) responded to it with a low-information writeup that erroneously dismisses it as "domestic" http://zeihan.com/ask-peter-my-thoughts-on-environmental-social-governance-esg/ . This "domestic" belief comes from an ignorance of ESG's corporate policy across markets, which is most universally seen in "sustainability" language, which has hundreds of key words seen across nearly all new trade agreements, with Nations such as India revising UN documents to ensure mass-adoption of the legalese (e.g., "coherence", "DEI", "pay gap", "equity"). .. [TDS Bot]: "no, Pence couldn't refuse to do his constitutional duties until magically passing through major election reform (that steps on States' rights)" Tw again demonstrating his monumental ignorance and the source of his cancerous belief in the "overturn" narrative. Tw is too stupid to understand this, but there is a *reason* that the DNC wants to *make* the VP position "ceremonial" through the revision of and abolition of the Electoral College: it currently **is not** "ceremonial". Pence did indeed have the authority to send faulty electors back to determine legal adherence (which would have won on the merits given the illegal actions of DNC judges), and this plain reality absolutely terrifies Bolsheviks such as Raskin, who subsequently terrify useful idiots such as tw into absolute cognitive dissonance when they realize the weakness of their position. They'll have slaves such as tw arguing that the VP had no authority while simultaneously saying that laws need to be passed to make sure that the VP has no authority — absolute doublethink by these absolute idiots. This is the temporal paradox logic which always mystifies low-IQ people such as tw. He cannot identify the difference between the DNC *wanting* it to be un-Constitutional **in the future** (a hypothetical future condition) versus it currently being Constitutional (a present reality). Their hope is to pass the bill into law and then convince idiots such as tw that the law was "always" in place ("1984" revisionism of time in all directions) — consolidating central/totalitarian powers through destruction of checks and balances while getting slaves such as tw to believe that such absolutism is "good". Degenerates and totalitarian sycophants such as tw should be denied the franchise. .. [Rugian]: "And clearly there was at least a theoretical possibility that Pence could refuse...as evidenced by Congress feeling the need to amend the Electoral Count Act afterwards." Bingo.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Aug 27 21:34:26 sigh... i'll regret engaging w/ the lunatic but here goes... the changes to the law similar to adding 'do not eat' to Tide Pods, a necessary step now that we're electing Homer Simpsons "Pence did indeed have the authority to send faulty electors back to determine legal adherence" in what way were they determined to be faulty? (your opinion doesn't matter at all... neither does Pence's who didn't even have that opinion) also... you claim it's the DNC who just want it this way... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE provide a list of GOP members then and/or now who claim Pence could do what Trump wanted PLEASEEEEEEEEEE then explain why that's so hard to find any name at all..... PLEASEEEEEEEEEE (it -would- have been the majority of all GOP, all claiming it on Twitter & Fox w/ all Fox hosts claiming it too instead of NOBODY) jesus, you people are nuts and there was no ask for 'legal adherence' it was just to outright reject them (Trump's preference) w/ no sending back at all... or sending back for legislatures to vote who gets the electors (as Trump had been pushing them to do all along plus asking DOJ to lie to the States & recommend they do so) thus the loser of election (Pence) single-handedly is chucking the results of States he lost for a chance at winning via different method (w/ completely fraudulent fake electors submitted to help justify it) so clearly fucking obviously wrong & corrupt...
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Aug 28 04:11:30 CC & Rugian on Zeihan, he also does not take into account that China can keep driving it's economy by lifting the 100's of millions of people still living in poverty to middle class. I have come to doubt his China collapse recently as well. It is a bit simplistic. Been listening to a lot of his interview and talks and he comes off as a standard Liberal/Globalist. Which you can read between the lines in this video where he finally talks about ESG :) http://zei...nmental-social-governance-esg/
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Aug 28 04:12:21 Oh, I didn't see that CC already posted that link.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Aug 28 04:19:38 You have to take into account that some ESG critics are simply saying ESG doesn't go far enough. It isn't effective, completely missing the inherent problem of stake holder capitalism and that un-elected elites are suppose to decide what is good for everyone. And Zeihan really falls from grace here, by doing the dumb "shadowy conspiracy" bit. There is nothing shadowy about it and then we have to get into the same dumbed down pseudo-discussion about the semantics of the word "conspiracy" that emerges when we talk with the usual suspects of this board. That way we don't have to talk about what they are actually procsribing and trying to do. Waaa conspiracy!
TheChildren Member	Mon Aug 28 08:14:34 2 much wall o text... "We actually agree on a lot, TC, except that you see only China and not the asset managers moving them." >> no we do not. ur idea of chayna, is basically a cartoon version fantasy where china is da conquerin empire poised 2 expand, while u r a da freedumbz lovin peace kingdom... it is the other way round, my brainwashed propaganda friend...lmao. murica has 25% of da world under sanction, is starvin hundreds of millions of ppl. butbutbut chaaayna. lol da simplistic view u have on da world xplains how wrong u r.
TheChildren Member	Mon Aug 28 08:38:17 rofl da global south, aka global MAJORITY, wants in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDmJQeszMCQ oh jee why does da majority of da world want in cc? butbutbut baaaad bad bad chaayna!?? its coz everything ur fakenews propaganda media tells u bout chayna is actually fake. Hence we call it fake propaganda news. ur cartoon version of chaayna, bad bad chayna, doesnt even exist. it isnt even far off. it so far off, it isnt even remote. it is so far removed from da realitiez, it is not moon to earth. its frikkin earth to another frikkin galaxy. thats how far off it is. its complete fantasy. based on ridiculous fantasy lies u hear on da fakenews media. on things that they literally invented out of thin air, like weeyghers genos. it frikkin doesnt even exist. it literally is fake, smearin, false, lies. it is faguzi. must be hard 4 whities 2 come 2 terms with realities lol. it is so fake, that ur societies have started mass fakin news 2 make other countries particular china look bad, like da balloonz which u surprise surprise hear nottin bout anymo. coz it was never even real. like those spies who got paid 15k...it is meant to keep very scared whiteys like u in line, full of hatred and ignorance and biases. 15k lol. it is as fake as plastic gold. remember da bbc reports bout da winterolympics and how da skiez was all smoggy and how athletes were locked in da room with no foods. when actual reality was that athletes were eatin 4 star dining every day under da most modern robotics which served food in da most ultra modern fashion any athlete has seen. they practised in clean super modern facilities, slept in comfy roomy big rooms, had da greatest times of there lives, all blogged vlogged posted or whatever, and during da matches they played in surreal cybapunk metalpunk settings... meanwhile da whitey reports were "they have not enuff foodz for da athletes, athletes r starvin and locked up" da arenas r all dirty and polluted. they show u screen shots of da skies in pure filter lenses 2 make it seem that da skiez is smoggy and polluted, when every athlete posted clear skies and sunny dayz. rofl. how u live with urselves, every day is a day filled with lying.
TheChildren Member	Mon Aug 28 10:53:17 how it works, my niaggaz and biatches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJnpYszYLQA ya clueless peasantz. why does someone in india tradin with south africa, need dollas 2 do this? undastand what is going on. it is pure evil. da rest of da world has had enuff. this is why da biggest countries wanna join da brics. chaayna evil is ur daily dose of propaganda. in realities, da rest of da world wanna not be colonized no more. haha, cc wake up. pwned
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Aug 29 00:26:01 [TDS Bot]: "in what way were they determined to be faulty? (your opinion doesn't matter at all... neither does Pence's who didn't even have that opinion)" Oh cool. Tw asking for my opinion and then saying it doesn't matter anyways. Sounds legit. It's like Marla Singer saying, "Oh, here comes an avalanche of bullshit." (Gonna need a little more good faith than that.) Then a red herring about how Pence has to have an opinion on the matter for it to be qualified? Absolute irrationality, tw. You can see that, can't you? This is the same error you made with believing that Cheney qualified the Show Trials. But looking beyond your psychosis to the steel-man argument, determining these electors to be faulty was the point of airing objections on January 6th. That is, the procedural errors in key DNC states had raised red flags amongst the GOP and GOP voters. *Regardless* of whether or not you *agree* with those objections, the objections did in fact exist. Despite propaganda claiming that there was "no evidence" and that [Gish Gallop number of] court proceedings had all "proven" this, evidence itself had largely not been heard due to "standing" issues in the courts, which resulted in objections carrying over to January 6th. January 6th was essentially the last chance to find procedural remedies for the objections. That is, the objections were *designed* to prompt discussion which would *determine* whether the electors were faulty. Do you understand this? [TDS Bot]: "also... you claim it's the DNC who just want it this way... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE provide a list of GOP members then and/or now who claim Pence could do what Trump wanted PLEASEEEEEEEEEE" Oh cool. A red herring, and the all-caps cognitive-dissonance psychosis is back. Why do you suppose that counter-points cause you such distress? Do you not suppose that your very identity is built upon having these religious convictions and that that identity will leave you to your empty cowardice if the foundations are revealed as built on sand? (And you seriously have no control over your emotions when you're contradicted, do you? Check your heart rate. You will literally have heart issues before you're 50 at this rate). And to the steel-man argument, tw too "REEEEEEE" stupid to even Google his claims and get a Regime-approved source: http://www...l-college-biden-objectors.html The issue is that you're too stupid to understand the process or decode the Regime's doublespeak. The Regime distortion is that 147 Republicans "Voted to Overturn Election Results", whereas these Republicans had "objections". Pence's power was to *object* to faulty electors, prompting debate over the objections in the chambers and potentially sending those post-debate objections back to the states (as explained here, comment "Mon Aug 28 23:09:44": http://utopiaforums.com/boardthread?id=politics&thread=92027&time=1693282386973 ). These Republicans were committing to having that debate should Pence give them the opportunity. People such as Ted Cruz very publicly stated that they intended to list their grievances via this procedure. None of this requires that they agree with Trump's or the Regime's *wording* on Pence's very real powers as VP. And you may remember this in the terms used by the Regime, which stated that Cruz, Rand Paul, Boebert, and Greene were trying to "overturn" the election and "[throw out the votes of millions of people]" (i.e., pure propaganda). Whereas the simple reality is that about 147 Republicans were prepared to object, which reflects a simple understanding of Pence's power to prompt debate over these objections. [TDS Bot]: "jesus, you people are nuts ... and there was no ask for 'legal adherence' it was just to outright reject them (Trump's preference) w/ no sending back at all..." Who is "nuts", again, Mr. All-Caps? That is, you really think that objections had no issue of legal adherence? Do you see how faulty that logic is? I'll try to spell it out (but wow): Objections themselves prompt a debate over legal adherence. That is literally what the objections raise. Think of it in simple court terms. When a lawyer calls out "Objection!", they state the reason for the objection and the judge determines whether the objection is valid. Do you understand this process? Can you scale the metaphor to the debate of the chambers? I.e., for electors, the objection is raised, the chambers debate whether the objections are valid (making arguments of legal adherence), and their decision is returned to the main assembly. What else do you suppose they debate in the chambers, tw? And what do you suppose would happen if the objections were sustained? Don't you think that Democrats would bargain to re-perform elections if it were between that and having the electors discarded? Why do you suppose it was so important for the DNC to distract with the January 6th protests rather than go through this process? How would it benefit Trump to *stop* this process? (I.e., it would not benefit him.) Those questions are too big for you, I realize. You do not even understand the process, so the rest of these questions are impossible to you to consider even as hypotheticals. [Nim]: "And Zeihan really falls from grace here, by doing the dumb "shadowy conspiracy" bit. There is nothing shadowy about it and then we have to get into the same dumbed down pseudo-discussion about the semantics of the word "conspiracy" that emerges when we talk with the usual suspects of this board." Yeah :/ It's like what I was trying to get across to Seb: it's literally written into their documents. You can literally pick up any ESG report from any major company and see the same governance frameworks, then simply ask where funds are being redirected to support these frameworks. The issue is just Celebration Parallax. People like Seb believe that they would have been told by a Regime expert if these things were happening. They cannot comprehend that things can be happening without it being debated on BBC, Reuters, AP, or CNN. [TheChildren]: "no we do not. ur idea of chayna, is basically a cartoon version fantasy where china is da conquerin empire poised 2 expand, while u r a da freedumbz lovin peace kingdom" So you're saying that China is *not* an ascending power? What was the purpose of all of those "owned owned owned" threads where you 1337-speeched about the glory of Chinese projects in direct comparison to Western failures? What is China "owning" if not the West? What do you suppose BRICS+ is if not a conquering empire poised to expand? How can you continue this doublespeak where you say exactly what I'm saying while pretending that it's the opposite of what I'm saying? Your new knowledge of BRICS is literally what I've been talking about for years: Western energy is being collapsed, which directly favors BRICS+ energy expansion. [TheChildren]: "it is as fake as plastic gold. remember da bbc reports bout da winterolympics and how da skiez was all smoggy and how athletes were locked in da room with no foods. when actual reality was that athletes were eatin 4 star dining every day under da most modern robotics which served food in da most ultra modern fashion any athlete has seen." lol. While living and working in China, I literally went to the exact site of the 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics, TheChildren. Have you been there? I'd bet that you couldn't even get a visa. I can tell you from direct personal experience that it's a smoggy shithole. They literally had to turn off their factories and implement temporary driving bans to decrease pollution during event days in 2008 and 2022. You can see with the naked eye when the smog starts rolling in from the factories in the morning. I appreciate the extents to which your satire account is willing to go, but even as a satirical Chinese bot account you would probably have to reconcile the increased energy of China with its increased pollution.
TheChildren Member	Tue Aug 29 00:50:19 iz ur other account called serpentthesnake by any chance? rofl u lived there in early 2000s. they remodelled da whole site durin 2022 for da winter olympics. there is nothin u saw there that was even remotely similar 2 da winter olympics lmao dont BS da rest of us. there aint no smog. ya maybe there was smog when u was there. in 2022 air is CLEAN. this is what PROGRESS looks like. i know progress dont exist in westoid lol but da rest of da world tend 2 try progress at least. even yank proprganda didnt dare LIE about it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/2022/01/24/olympics-china-weather-control/ they kept it to "oh it was clear skies but they just used some weather missiles when we r gone it will turn dark and grey again" rofl@ i lived there...yea 20 years ago lol. watch out for da pinky slime http://www...sturbing-production-sliced-ham lol
TheChildren Member	Tue Aug 29 00:53:22 "So you're saying that China is *not* an ascending power? " >> they r da supapower. on some fronts they r still da ascending powa, yes. but ascendin, descendin, flyin, rainbowin, got literally zero to do with ur cartoon views on chayna rofl. u been watchin 2 many movies about da evil empires...if there is such an empire, its actually da place where u live.
TheChildren Member	Tue Aug 29 00:58:10 theres literally 3000 videos or 10 videos a day from tourists in chayna. and 80% of them on every day of da year show clear blue skies and gorgeous weather....strange how realities often contradict ur propagandaz isnt it. rofl this isnt 2004 where propaganda is da only media. theres thousands, tens of thousands of people visitin chayna every year. it one of da best travelin destinations, period. 5000 years of history, archeological site, best food, best accomoodations, best public transport, pure safety, butbutbut them genocieeede? rofl now yank propaganda is claimin saudis r genocidin ethiopians...just 3 days after both saudi arabia and ethiopia JOINED brics. OHH?? rofl u cant even make this shat up. http://www...can-migrants-border-kept-quiet
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Aug 29 01:28:57 Vivek clarified his opinion on legal immigration and some other question on Candace Owens, specifically that merit includes ”civic duty”, and providing Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib et al as warning examples of people who generations in hate the USA. Well I’ll be damned.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Aug 29 02:17:49 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rR6TU8i2mA
murder Member	Tue Aug 29 06:03:35 Who cares what lower caste filthy Dalit Vivek has to say? He bathes among rotting corpses and human excrement. He eats cow manure and drinks cow piss. On the plus side I guess the cow piss keeps his teeth nice and white.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Aug 29 06:59:28 Rugian "There was a point in time when DeSantis was running neck and neck with Trump. So it is possible to pitch yourself as a viable alternative to him." Doesn't that contradict itself? Operating word being "was". "It is an incredibly difficult balancing game though." Yes, so perhaps timing is key, first clear the other people and provide better narratives, make a name for himself, even get sodme of the purple voters. "The problem though is that he's not distinguishing himself from Trump *at all.*" He is a much more refined version of Trump. Trump 2.0 if you will. I don't think that is a fair assessment. I am not an American voter, though I strongly empathize with a common cause against the authoritarian leftists, in the USA, EU and globally, and so far Vivek is making a lot of sense and he is conveying that message better than Trump. "then why shouldn't we just vote for Trump again? Vivek *himself* is making Trump out to be the best option" This is true, but he is slowly distinguishing himself, he has criticized Trump for how he handled January 6th. If he is to stand a chance, he needs to pick his battles and timing. I posted earlier, he explained the immigration must serve the citizen of the USA and merit in his view includes civic duty as a prerequisite. No more silicon valley tech bros, no more indentured servitude H-1B visas. I like that very much, as you know Sweden suffers from this kind of reckless immigration policy, but on steroids. It remains to be seen, but so far I like what I am hearing.
murder Member	Tue Aug 29 07:14:38 "This is true, but he is slowly distinguishing himself, he has criticized Trump for how he handled January 6th. If he is to stand a chance, he needs to pick his battles and timing." That's not how it works. The moment Trump feels that the guy is a threat he's going to start gutting him ... same as DeSantis. The moment Trump attacks him, Ramaswamy becomes toxic to the Trump loyalists, which is most of the voting Republicans. The only available alternative to Trump lane is the anti-Trump lane ... and that is a smallish segment of the party and a dead end road. Trump will be the GOP nominee unless he drops out for health reasons or because he cut some kind of deal with prosecutors ... or both.
murder Member	Tue Aug 29 07:15:47 btw this ^ applies to 2024. Ramaswamy may become a player for 2028 if he plays his cards right.
TheChildren Member	Thu Aug 31 10:09:08 just admit facts yankoids. u can watch da foreign policy of ur country since 2000...and its always CHAYNA CHAYNA CHAYNA ROESSIA ROESSIA ROESSIA it never bout how u failed as a country and how agressive and redneck ur foreign policy is. it never about colonialism and imperialism but just badmouthin other countries instead of fixin ur own country is about talkin shat and actin like a bald redneck on roidrage against other countries. 3rd world country is comin 4 ur country.
kargen Member	Fri Sep 01 19:32:40 Well let's hope we get that wall built to slow down all the 3rd world population risking their lives to try and come here. If the USA sucked so bad China wouldn't be trying to send all their young people to college here.
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